Drew Stubbs

[WebScorpion]

Here's what I expect from Stubbs:

* I expect he will continue to provide superior defense.
* I expect his plus arm to remain a plus tool.
* I expect his base stealing to improve as he learns the pitchers and catchers in the league.
* I expect him to improve his hitting, especially where plate discipline is concerned. He's always taken a while to learn at each level and his plate discipline has always been steadily progressing. Really what he needs in this area is consistency; sometimes he looks like an old pro out there and the next at bat he looks like a kid being fooled again. Time will cure this...but a lot longer time than most of us seem to want. I see 2011-2012 as the time we'll see the 'real' Drew Stubbs.
* I expect him to hit for some power, but less than he's currently displaying. I think his power surge is largely 'Great American Small Park' power. HR in GAB = 6, HR on road = 1. That said, he WILL be playing half his games in GAB...

I really wouldn't be too upset if Jocketty decided Stubby should spend another season in AAA, but I'm not sure what that would do to the kids head. This might be the best hitting of his entire career and they send him down... How does that motivate him? Anyway, he needs many, many, many at bats somewhere. As long as he continues to progress I'll be happy. And I won't mind if he does it in the Major Leagues either...I love watching him play center field.

[*BaseClogger*]

For those who have watched the two players in the field enough to come to a conclusion, how does the defense of Dickerson and Stubbs compare?

[traderumor]

Stubbs is a natural, seemingly effortless, graceful CFer, while Dickerson is a good OFer that can cover ground, but makes diving catches of what Stubbs catches routinely. Stubbs is a special CFer defensively, while Dickerson is above average.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Sure, but he also hasn't been using his current swing for all that long either.

So then we really have no idea what his current swing can do @ the MLB level, given the ridiculously small sample size.

We do know, however, what his old swing could do, and that wasn't SLG.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

So then we really have no idea what his current swing can do @ the MLB level, given the ridiculously small sample size.

We do know, however, what his old swing could do, and that wasn't SLG.

I may be off base here, but I'm starting to think that you are not a Drew Stubbs fan

[TRF]

If you consider the needs of the Reds at the time, pitching, Stubbs was a poor pick. And I don't mean the Reds needed pitching at the MLB level, they did, but they needed it organization wide. Stubbs will forever be linked to the the pick the Reds didn't make, Lincecum. Maybe that isn't fair, but it is what it is.

But past that, he's never kicked the door down with his bat at any level, and IMO that is a must for a 1st round top ten pick.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by TRF

If you consider the needs of the Reds at the time, pitching, Stubbs was a poor pick. And I don't mean the Reds needed pitching at the MLB level, they did, but they needed it organization wide. Stubbs will forever be linked to the the pick the Reds didn't make, Lincecum. Maybe that isn't fair, but it is what it is.

But past that, he's never kicked the door down with his bat at any level, and IMO that is a must for a 1st round top ten pick.

He will forever be linked to the pick they didn't make if people like you continue to link them. Don't act like its inevitable that he HAS to be linked to that pick. That pick has NOTHING to do with Drew Stubbs as a baseball player. All he does is play baseball. It was the Reds decision to pick him at that spot. You can be upset at the Reds for making the pick, but it makes zero sense to continually bash on Stubbs for being the baseball player that he is and trying to assess the "value" of the pick. He's a good baseball player and is a very solid addition to this team. At this point, it is completely irrelevant what pick he was taken with. He is a baseball player.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I may be off base here, but I'm starting to think that you are not a Drew Stubbs fan

I want him to succeed as a Red, but the only contribution(s) he'll provide to the Reds will be elite D (which is a great thing), hopefully some SBs and solid baserunning, and hopefully he'll improve his BB:K by increasing his walks (which he'll need in order to have any shot at providing a decent OBP).

Drew Stubbs will not make this offense better, which is what they need. Did he improve the offense from Taveras? Yes. Will he make the 2010 offense look like something drastically better than 2009? Absolutely not. The Reds need more dudes that can rake, and Stubbs certainly ain't one of them.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

He will forever be linked to the pick they didn't make if people like you continue to link them. Don't act like its inevitable that he HAS to be linked to that pick. That pick has NOTHING to do with Drew Stubbs as a baseball player. All he does is play baseball. It was the Reds decision to pick him at that spot. You can be upset at the Reds for making the pick, but it makes zero sense to continually bash on Stubbs for being the baseball player that he is and trying to assess the "value" of the pick. He's a good baseball player and is a very solid addition to this team. At this point, it is completely irrelevant what pick he was taken with. He is a baseball player.

Can I continually point out that Drew Stubbs won't be the player that people want him to be?

That's my contention, and one that TRF shares as well. We wasted a 1st Round Draft Pick on an OF gloveman who doesn't have a bat that can help this offense.

As TRF's pointed out, the longer Drew Stubbs spends at a particular pro level, his production declines, so why on Earth do I think he'll magically buck that pattern @ the MLB level?

Minor league pitchers figured out Drew Stubbs, but major league pitchers won't or can't? That must be it.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Can I continually point out that Drew Stubbs won't be the player that people want him to be?

That's my contention, and one that TRF shares as well. We wasted a 1st Round Draft Pick on an OF gloveman who doesn't have a bat that can help this offense.

As TRF's pointed out, the longer Drew Stubbs spends at a particular pro level, his production declines, so why on Earth do I think he'll magically buck that pattern @ the MLB level?

Minor league pitchers figured out Drew Stubbs, but major league pitchers won't or can't? That must be it.

Try making a case without it having anything to do with where he was drafted. Where he was drafted is IRRELEVANT to the actual player that he is. His bat has a ways to go, but there is no arguing that he has sky high potential. He is a very special centerfielder, and will win gold gloves out there. That kind of thing does not grow on trees, as much as people would love to believe there are gold glove centerfielders out there to be had on a moments notice.

He won't be the player I want him to be? I want him to play great D in center, leadoff, steal bases, and get on base. Are you saying he won't do those things?

[lollipopcurve]

Can I continually point out that Drew Stubbs won't be the player that people want him to be?

No, you shouldn't bother, because you don't know what kind of player Stubbs will end up being, nor do you know what would or would not satisfy "people"?

Minor league pitchers figured out Drew Stubbs, but major league pitchers won't or can't?

How is it that these pitchers, regardless of level, are able to adjust, yet Stubbs is considered to be in some kind of static state where he never changes?

The possibility exists that the reason Stubbs' production lagged the longer he stayed at a level is partly due to his becoming frustrated/impatient/bored/confused/overcoached, whatever, and that a slightly more aggressive promotion schedule would have worked well for him. He's an elite athlete who probably always imagined himself having a major league career sooner rather than later, and it is possible -- note, I am not saying it is the case, only that it is possible -- that he responds better to being challenged than to being schooled. Now that he's made it, he maybe he will apply himself with more energy/commitment/confidence, whatever, than he ever did in the minors.

In other words, maybe there are some individual factors that will allow Stubbs to do better -- whether they be intangible, as noted above, or tangible, such as tweaking his swing. The assumption that he was/is a finished product with the bat is certainly absurd, as the scouting adage that "power comes last" has been around the game for decades and has applied to scores of players.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

Try making a case without it having anything to do with where he was drafted. Where he was drafted is IRRELEVANT to the actual player that he is. His bat has a ways to go, but there is no arguing that he has sky high potential. He is a very special centerfielder, and will win gold gloves out there. That kind of thing does not grow on trees, as much as people would love to believe there are gold glove centerfielders out there to be had on a moments notice.

He won't be the player I want him to be? I want him to play great D in center, leadoff, steal bases, and get on base. Are you saying he won't do those things?

Ok, so he's an elite D CFer with some speed, can steal a bag when he gets on base (which he needs to improve upon @ the MLB level by improving his BB:K ratio by increasing his BB), with no bat.

Now we're hedging our bets that he can provide production to the offense by getting on base, which he's struggling to do currently.

So let's all cross our fingers and hope Drew Stubbs remembers how to find 1B via the walk since he's not finding it with his bat.

[RedEye]

Drew Stubbs threads on RedsZone... you can't stop them, you can only hope to contain them.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

No, you shouldn't bother, because you don't know what kind of player Stubbs will end up being, nor do you know what would or would not satisfy "people"?



How is it that these pitchers, regardless of level, are able to adjust, yet Stubbs is considered to be in some kind of static state where he never changes?

The possibility exists that the reason Stubbs' production lagged the longer he stayed at a level is partly due to his becoming frustrated/impatient/bored/confused/overcoached, whatever, and that a slightly more aggressive promotion schedule would have worked well for him. He's an elite athlete who probably always imagined himself having a major league career sooner rather than later, and it is possible -- note, I am not saying it is the case, only that it is possible -- that he responds better to being challenged than to being schooled. Now that he's made it, he maybe he will apply himself with more energy/commitment/confidence, whatever, than he ever did in the minors.

In other words, maybe there are some individual factors that will allow Stubbs to do better -- whether they be intangible, as noted above, or tangible, such as tweaking his swing. The assumption that he was/is a finished product with the bat is certainly absurd, as the scouting adage that "power comes last" has been around the game for decades and has applied to scores of players.

Kinda grasping at/for straws here, no?

Injuries and lack of depth led to Drew Stubbs being promoted to the MLB level. His bat certainly didn't lead to him being promoted to the MLB level.

Pretty radical argument to say that he was bored in the minors and sucked something awful offensively as a whole(his OBP was respectable, but that's it), so let's promote him to the MLB club.

[Homer Bailey]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Ok, so he's an elite D CFer with some speed, can steal a bag when he gets on base (which he needs to improve upon @ the MLB level by improving his BB:K ratio by increasing his BB), with no bat.

Now we're hedging our bets that he can provide production to the offense by getting on base, which he's struggling to do currently.

So let's all cross our fingers and hope Drew Stubbs remembers how to find 1B via the walk since he's not finding it with his bat.

You can't cite Stubbs's low major league OBP and at the same time claim small sample size for his slugging.

Kid is still young, has sky high potential, and does not deserve the scrutiny he gets from Reds fans. It's completely unfair.