Rick Sweet on Francisco, Frazier and Valaika

[TRF]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Francisco hasn't switch hit since he came to the US.

I thought he switch hit in Dayton some to start, but that was quickly scrapped. I could be mis-remembering that though.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by TRF

I thought he switch hit in Dayton some to start, but that was quickly scrapped. I could be mis-remembering that though.

If it did happen I didn't see/hear about it. Either way, its been a long time since he has switch hit.

[Team Clark]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Frazier had 45 doubles at two levels, 63 extra base hits altogether this year. I don't see him as a supersub, this guy should have a position.

Yes, for a year or two he could be on the Reds' bench, but you'd expect a team to be grooming Frazier to be a regular player. Maybe they see him as a supersub initially, then eventually, when Phillips gets too expensive, as a second baseman.

Ty Wigginton?

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by mth123

Its not a question of pigeonholing, its a question of evaluating how he might fit best to make the Reds a good team. I just think at 1B, RF and LF the Reds need a bigger threat. Votto and Bruce provide two of those and Frazier could be the third, but I think you could get more production in LF w/o a lot of cost so why limit Frazier to LF when he has the ability to move around? You yourself said that Frazier doesn't really have the glove for 2B, SS, and CF and I agree. Playing him at those spots day in and day out would be the kind of thing that can do damage to a staff. It doesn't mean that he couldn't get the occasional start at 2B every couple weeks and an occassional start at SS in similar timing. So lets say they do that and between 2B and SS Frazier starts 25 -30 games throughout the year. In the OF, Frazier could play more. LF is probably his best spot at this point and he could probably also play RF. If Bruce could slide to CF with Frazier in RF it would give him the ability to back up all three spots out there. Lets say he could get a couple starts a week in the OF, that is another 50 - 55 games or so. Rolen is going to need fairly frequent rest at 3B. Say Frazier could play there once a week - another 25 starts or so. Throw in 10 to 15 starts a year at 1B while Votto rests and Frazier could start 100 to 110 games per year. Its not hard to see him as a guy who gets 400 ABs or so while providing a solid (but not spectacular) bat to the line-up. I personally think that may be more valuable to the team than having him play every day in LF when other players who may be available for a fairly reasonable price could be more productive out there. LF is a spot for the .900 OPS gorilla and while I like FRazier OK, I'm thinking he's more of the very solid .780 to .830 type in the major leagues. A fine player to spot in as noted above and solid depth to fill in should the team's bigger bats go on the DL. Its, frankly, the kind of player good teams have as depth and second division teams use as centerpieces. I want the Reds to be a good team.

Funny thing is, this same scenario might work with Valiaka and to a lesser extent Francisco (though no 2B or SS for him). Of the three, Francisco has the best possibility as an every day guy in LF (and is also most likley to be a total bust). I could actually see a future where Francisco plays LF against RHP, Frazier gets the RH ABs out there and both Valaika and Frazier end up playing everywhere else with Valiaka getting more of the MI time and Frazier more time in the OF.

I just think Frazier is the answer at 3B and as a 5th/6th place hitter eventually and would prefer he finally get some time to play that position. If he fails to rise to that level of player then fine turn him into a supersub. If they want to use him as a supersub initially until Rolen is gone after next season that's fine as well but he should get every opportunity to be an everyday player at one position just like everyone else. I happen to think the more he's talked about as a supersub the more likely he ends up there because his ceiling isn't quite as high as a Francisco. Perception by the fan base can have an effect if the F.O. and management isn't up to par and I don't feel they are. Great teams are built on a great foundation and guys like Frazier are that type of player IMO, I'd hate to see him undervalued, misused and/or dealt only to see him be a Paul O'Neill for someone else.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I just think Frazier is the answer at 3B and as a 5th/6th place hitter eventually and would prefer he finally get some time to play that position. If he fails to rise to that level of player then fine turn him into a supersub. If they want to use him as a supersub initially until Rolen is gone after next season that's fine as well but he should get every opportunity to be an everyday player at one position just like everyone else. I happen to think the more he's talked about as a supersub the more likely he ends up there because his ceiling isn't quite as high as a Francisco. Perception by the fan base can have an effect if the F.O. and management isn't up to par and I don't feel they are. Great teams are built on a great foundation and guys like Frazier are that type of player IMO, I'd hate to see him undervalued, misused and/or dealt only to see him be a Paul O'Neill for someone else.

I'd guess that Frazier will primarily play 3B in AAA in 2010. Louisville could be loaded but the defense could be iffy with lots of guys going to new positions.

1B Dorn (eventually or maybe initially Alonso)
2B Valaika
SS Cozart
3B Frazier
LF Francisco
CF Heisey
RF Henry
C Denove
SP Wood

If Frazier can handle the spot defensively (I'm guessing the jury is still out), he may be the guy to inherit the spot from Rolen. The Reds could re-up Rolen though or he may retire. I'm guessing that Rolen engineered the deal to cincy to be as close as he could to his home and probably won't leave on his own unless St. Louis wants him back (say if Larussa leaves town), otherwise he'll stay in Cincy until he retires. I'm not sure he's worth $11 Million anymore at his age, so Frazier moving into that spot would help the budget, I just think Walt will bring Rolen back for another couple years and 3B won't be an option. If Rolen moves on it could be different.

Frazier's bat still is a concern IMO. Other than roughly 125 PAs at Dayton, he's not been a monster with a .900 plus OPS anywhere. He been more of an .830ish type which is still pretty good, but I'd wonder what that translates to in the big leagues. If he's in the .780 to .800 range, then he may be a bit of a tweener. Not enough glove to play everyday where that would be a plus and not enough bat to be the type of hitter you'd want in a corner OF or 1B spot except possibly as a part of a platoon. It probably fits best at 3B, but if he's a butcher defensively, you're right back to having another EdE out there. Fact is, if Rolen sticks around, supersub is Frazier's best option and he'd be a good one - the type of depth that championship teams have. I'd guess if he played every day in a corner, he'd be the kind of guy who would leave us wanting an upgrade and would not be so attractive when his price starts going up.

[flyer85]

Reds don't need a 3B, Rolen will be here another 3-4 years.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by flyer85

Reds don't need a 3B, Rolen will be here another 3-4 years.

I can see that too. Unless he, or Walt, decides to retire after next season.

[medford]

While I agree that Rolen will likely be extended beyond next season, perhaps the shuffle has finally found a spot for Frazier to settle into a regular 3b in AAA for a season and see how things sort themselves out.

It would seem that Stubbs is likely here to stay next year, starting in CF. Heisey is likely to take CF in AAA full time. Sounds like they're committed to Cisco playing LF, and he needs to spend next year in AAA both learning the position and tuning up his swing (though I've definently been more than impressed in what limited action I've seen from him so far), which would then open up 3b for Frazier to man all of next season in AAA and then allow the Reds to go from there in terms of extending Rolen (though I think that happens this offseason) or letting him move along after next season.

Of the above deals, I'd love to get Yunel, and would give even more than your propossed deal. I'd even give up Yonder for him, but the Braves don't have a need for a young 1B, so the Reds have to go another route. He could fill the reds SS hole, and top of the lineup hole for a good 5 seasons, which should put him right in the window of the Red's opportunity to make a run in the playoffs, assuming Votto, Bruce, Bailey, Cueto & a healthy Volquez can live up to their billing.

[toledodan]

could frazier be alot like jeff kent? power guy playing second base who played alot of positions coming up in the minors. reds need to move BP to short and give frazier a shot when he's ready.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by toledodan

could frazier be alot like jeff kent? power guy playing second base who played alot of positions coming up in the minors. reds need to move BP to short and give frazier a shot when he's ready.

a lot of things could be. However, the Reds biggest needs are still SS and C and they don't have any good internal answers at the moment ( I am not ragging on Janish of Hanigan ).

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by flyer85

Reds don't need a 3B, Rolen will be here another 3-4 years.

I agree that's a distinct possibility, but given his health history, the Reds most certainly need a capable alternative... A guy like Frazier who could also reasonably handle some other positions would be a good choice.

How's DeRosa for a Frazier comp?

[lollipopcurve]

How's DeRosa for a Frazier comp?

Excellent, I'd say, so far as these things go (not far, in my book).

[mth123]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I agree that's a distinct possibility, but given his health history, the Reds most certainly need a capable alternative... A guy like Frazier who could also reasonably handle some other positions would be a good choice.

How's DeRosa for a Frazier comp?

Perfect. Been making that one for a while now.

While we're comping, Chris Valaika and Ronne Belliard seem like a good pair.

Not sure I have a comp for Francisco but Gates Brown keeps coming to mind.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by mth123

Not sure I have a comp for Francisco but Gates Brown keeps coming to mind.

Not sure why it comes to mind. Brown walked nearly as much as he struck out. Francisco has never even been at 4-1 at any level.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Not sure why it comes to mind. Brown walked nearly as much as he struck out. Francisco has never even been at 4-1 at any level.

You're right. Just seeing the 5-11, 220 LB body type with power as his basic tool and defense a challenge. There's probably a better comp out there, but I got nothing.