Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

TheNext44 · 11-01-2009, 01:45 PM

I know that Holliday is a free agent and can't be traded, this could happen in theory.

Assume that it will take a 5 year 100M contract to get Holliday to sign with the Reds. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but that's about what I am guessing it would take with Boras as his agent.

If the Reds trade Harang and Cordero, they will save $39.5M over the next two years. That almost covers Holliday's salary over the next two years. This would give the Reds two years to build a roster that could afford Holliday for the next three years, or possibly trade him after two years.

I think both Cordero and Harang can be traded without the Reds adding any cash, if no significant talent comes over to the Reds in the deals. They should be able to get a decent #5 starter and middle reliever, for them, which would fill the holes created by their trade. (Middle reliever replaces Massett or Burton, or Rhodes, or Fisher, or whoever becomes their closer)

But the key is that they then have the money to sign Holliday.

So the team would look something like this next year:

Hanigan
Votto
Phillips
Rolen
Janish
Holliday
Stubbs/Dickerson
Bruce

Stubbs/Dickerson
Janish (sigh)
Votto
Holliday
Bruce
Rolen
Phillips
Hanigan

Cueto
Arroyo
Bailey
Maloney
5th starter via trade or FA

Massett
Rhodes
Fisher
Burton
Herrera
Owings

They would be a little light in the starting pitching department, but Volquez comes back for 2011, and Leake and Wood should be ready by then if not sooner. And they would have a very solid offense and defense.

Anyway, just a thought.

fearofpopvol1 · 11-01-2009, 01:51 PM

absolutely.

but i don't think it will happen.

LawFive · 11-01-2009, 02:29 PM

In a second. But I don't see any takers for Harang after his performance the last two years, when combined with his salary.

camisadelgolf · 11-01-2009, 02:52 PM

It'd be awfully hard for me to not accept that trade because it'd be an insane starting lineup:
1. CF Stubbs
2. 3B Rolen
3. 1B Votto
4. LF Holliday
5. RF Bruce
6. 2B Phillips
7. SS Whatshisface
8. C Whocares

However, I shudder at the thought of this rotation to start the year:
SP Arroyo
SP Cueto
SP Bailey
SP Owings
SP Maloney

That's also not to mention a big asset in the bullpen being gone. I think this hypothetical trade would help the team but not as much as people think.

mth123 · 11-01-2009, 04:10 PM

Holiday no. Halladay, sign me up.

HokieRed · 11-01-2009, 05:06 PM

I like the Halladay plan. No for Holliday, because it simply blocks Votto or Alonso, both of whom either are/will be better than Holliday. I do, however, like the salary savings.

TheNext44 · 11-01-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mth123

Holiday no. Halladay, sign me up.

tomato, tamoto....

The question is, "Does the Reds front office have the guts to trade two very productive and popular players for next to nothing, in order to free payroll space to get that big bat/arm (5-6 win player) that this teams needs to compete?

TheNext44 · 11-01-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

It'd be awfully hard for me to not accept that trade because it'd be an insane starting lineup:
1. CF Stubbs
2. 3B Rolen
3. 1B Votto
4. LF Holliday
5. RF Bruce
6. 2B Phillips
7. SS Whatshisface
8. C Whocares

However, I shudder at the thought of this rotation to start the year:
SP Arroyo
SP Cueto
SP Bailey
SP Owings
SP Maloney

That's also not to mention a big asset in the bullpen being gone. I think this hypothetical trade would help the team but not as much as people think.

I think you are right, it's not as much as most people would think, but I think it's enough to be worth it.

My calculations make Holliday around a 2 win addition in this scenario.

I think he is worth 5 wins over the Reds current LF situation. He'd be a 6 win player in GABP, and currently, Gomes/Dickerson are about a 1 win platoon.

Harang and Cordero are combined 3 win players at most. Assuming that they are replaced with replacement level talent, that makes the trade a two win deal for the Reds. If they can get a 1 win player for each player, or replace them each with 1 win player, then the trade is s 4 win addition.

Spring~Fields · 11-01-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNext44

Assume that it will take a 5 year 100M contract to get Holliday to sign with the Reds. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but that's about what I am guessing it would take with Boras as his agent.

If the Reds trade Harang and Cordero, they will save $39.5M over the next two years. That almost covers Holliday's salary over the next two years. This would give the Reds two years to build a roster that could afford Holliday for the next three years, or possibly trade him after two years.

I think both Cordero and Harang can be traded without the Reds adding any cash, if no significant talent comes over to the Reds in the deals.

No, but I would like Jocketty to trade them for some other pieces that would make a difference to the Reds money and talent wise. I am just biased against 5 year or long term contracts because of factors that can hurt the small market or less financially capable teams.

I want him to restructure his player talent resources and finances, meaning contractual obligations to bring back talent that can make serious contributions and have a long term positive effect with reduced risk for that financially strapped team.

11-01-2009, 01:45 PM	#1
TheNext44 Socratic Gadfly Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,224	Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday? I know that Holliday is a free agent and can't be traded, this could happen in theory. Assume that it will take a 5 year 100M contract to get Holliday to sign with the Reds. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but that's about what I am guessing it would take with Boras as his agent. If the Reds trade Harang and Cordero, they will save $39.5M over the next two years. That almost covers Holliday's salary over the next two years. This would give the Reds two years to build a roster that could afford Holliday for the next three years, or possibly trade him after two years. I think both Cordero and Harang can be traded without the Reds adding any cash, if no significant talent comes over to the Reds in the deals. They should be able to get a decent #5 starter and middle reliever, for them, which would fill the holes created by their trade. (Middle reliever replaces Massett or Burton, or Rhodes, or Fisher, or whoever becomes their closer) But the key is that they then have the money to sign Holliday. So the team would look something like this next year: Hanigan Votto Phillips Rolen Janish Holliday Stubbs/Dickerson Bruce Stubbs/Dickerson Janish (sigh) Votto Holliday Bruce Rolen Phillips Hanigan Cueto Arroyo Bailey Maloney 5th starter via trade or FA Massett Rhodes Fisher Burton Herrera Owings They would be a little light in the starting pitching department, but Volquez comes back for 2011, and Leake and Wood should be ready by then if not sooner. And they would have a very solid offense and defense. Anyway, just a thought. __________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

11-01-2009, 01:51 PM	#2
fearofpopvol1 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 8,627	Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday? absolutely. but i don't think it will happen.

11-01-2009, 02:29 PM	#3
LawFive Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Eastern Suburbia Posts: 533	Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday? In a second. But I don't see any takers for Harang after his performance the last two years, when combined with his salary. __________________ The seven most magic words in all the land... "If, in the opinion of the referee,..."

11-01-2009, 02:52 PM	#4
camisadelgolf Vampire Weekend @Bernie's Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 11,311	Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday? It'd be awfully hard for me to not accept that trade because it'd be an insane starting lineup: 1. CF Stubbs 2. 3B Rolen 3. 1B Votto 4. LF Holliday 5. RF Bruce 6. 2B Phillips 7. SS Whatshisface 8. C Whocares However, I shudder at the thought of this rotation to start the year: SP Arroyo SP Cueto SP Bailey SP Owings SP Maloney That's also not to mention a big asset in the bullpen being gone. I think this hypothetical trade would help the team but not as much as people think.

11-01-2009, 05:06 PM	#6
HokieRed Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,042	Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday? I like the Halladay plan. No for Holliday, because it simply blocks Votto or Alonso, both of whom either are/will be better than Holliday. I do, however, like the salary savings.

11-01-2009, 04:10 PM	#5
mth123 The Big Dog Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,679	Re: Would You Trade Harang and CoCo for Holliday? Holiday no. Halladay, sign me up. __________________ "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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