MLBTR: Reds looking to deal

[nate]

So many threads about basically the same thing but here's another one. One of the closing graphs:

An all-out fire sale seems unlikely, but the Reds could earn salary relief, and maybe even decent prospects, in exchange for Phillips, Cordero or Arroyo (or, for that matter, Aaron Harang). On the other hand, it might kill whatever hope the team has of contending in the near future. So what do you think, Reds fans? Would you like to see the club explore trade options, or is there a better way to restore the franchise to prominence?

Honestly, the comments are more interesting than the article. It's interesting to see non-Reds fans take on the Reds trade prospects.

[dunner13]

Im almost thinking it would be better to trade all of them and let this year be a year of our young players getting experience. Then next offseason we should have plenty of money to fill the holes that we need filled, plus next offseason its suppossed to be a much better free agent class and compete in 11. Think about it for a second...

Trade Phillips replace him with frazier. Who I have seen compared to Jeff Kent.
Trade Cordero and let massett or another young pitcher close.
Trade Arroyo and Harang bring up Travis Wood and Mike Leake.
Let Cozart take over shortstop and Heisey left field, stubbs center.
Let hanigan take full time catching duties, maybe he can handle it maybe he cant, but lets find out.

To me it looks like we are probably not going to compete in 2010 so if we are going to lose we might as well get a good look at our young players and save money. I think it would put us in a better position to win in 11.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I had just read that article too. I found it rather amusing all the proposed trades in the comments. Seems like a lot of people want Phillips. The Red Sox fans are freaking delusional though. Mike Lowell for Phillips? Good grief.

In regards to Frazier...I was under the impression that he did rather poorly to rather pedestrian defensively at second and that he's nowhere close to ready for the bigs at that position. His bat, yes...his glove AT SECOND...no. Maybe someone with first hand knowledge can enlighten us.

~edit~ Hehe, saw a better one. Phillips AND Volquez for Lowell and Bowden. Holy crap, what are they putting in the water there in Boston? Sheesh!

[nate]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I had just read that article too. I found it rather amusing all the proposed trades in the comments. Seems like a lot of people want Phillips. The Red Sox fans are freaking delusional though. Mike Lowell for Phillips? Good grief.

That guy got reamed pretty handily a few comments down.

[Bumstead]

If Harang and Arroyo are traded and no reasonable replacement SP is obtained our pitching staff will be miserable and the bullpen will crumble due to overuse. Somebody has to throw innings, and Wood/Leake need time in the minors before being asked to throw 200 innings in MLB.

While it seems unlikely the Reds can compete this year, dumping those 2 starters will cause some major damage barring a return or a signing of starting pitching that can cover the innings that are lost.

Bum

[BrooklynRedz]

Absolute madness. If the front office can't afford the payroll as currently positioned, sell the franchise. Or move it. Or contract it. Or, here's a thought: do a better job marketing your product and selling tickets. Give the fans a compelling reason to tune in. Give the local broadcasters an incentive to purchase your media rights. This annual song and dance from the front office about why they can't compete or keep the talent is antithetic to all other attempts the club is doing to sell the product.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Bumstead

If Harang and Arroyo are traded and no reasonable replacement SP is obtained our pitching staff will be miserable and the bullpen will crumble due to overuse. Somebody has to throw innings, and Wood/Leake need time in the minors before being asked to throw 200 innings in MLB.

While it seems unlikely the Reds can compete this year, dumping those 2 starters will cause some major damage barring a return or a signing of starting pitching that can cover the innings that are lost.

Bum

Reds would have to add a reasonable replacement.

By reason of bad luck or whatever, Harang hasn't won a lot of games the last two years. A cheaper pitcher with better luck might bring about a better result. Even somebody who lacks Harang's skill.

I'm not sure it would be bad to replace one of these guys with a less expensive, but talented guy. Thing is, Arroyo and Harang are probably gone after this year anyway. It may just be time to move on.

Really unfortunate that Volquez got hurt. That would make it a lot easier to move one of these pitchers. Still, the Reds have Arroyo, Bailey, Cueto, and a bunch of fifth starter candidates. If they replaced AH with somebody decent, it could work out ok.

Of course, nothing will work out for this team if they don't add offense. They cannot win with last year's offense.

[Phhhl]

Originally Posted by BrooklynRedz

Absolute madness. If the front office can't afford the payroll as currently positioned, sell the franchise. Or move it. Or contract it. Or, here's a thought: do a better job marketing your product and selling tickets. Give the fans a compelling reason to tune in. Give the local broadcasters an incentive to purchase your media rights. This annual song and dance from the front office about why they can't compete or keep the talent is antithetic to all other attempts the club is doing to sell the product.

Baseball is going to keep pummeling markets like Cincinnati until there is a new labor agreement. There is a LOT to like about the club the way it currently exists, a lot of hard work to get it to this point. But it is an absolute crime that they may have to start dismantling it when they are finally close to a breakthrough. All this talk of not being one or two players away from a contender is nonsense... that is exactly what this team is if you put a guy like Matt Holliday or Jayson Bay in the middle of this lineup. I can't blame ownership, and I can't blame fans who feel so cheated by the economics of the game that they don't want to attend games. I attend 10-15 games a year, and it is almost a meloncholy feeling of futility going down there even if the Reds win the game, because a dark cloud of impending doom no matter how well they play for any stretch of games is always hovering.

I blame baseball, not the organization. BCast might not know how to do it exactly, but I believe he desperately wants to win. Baseball is like the Roman Empire flourishing on it's conquests now. But the more teams that get tossed onto the scrap heap like this one the sooner the cracks, and soon gaping crevaces will begin to appear on it's facade until it begins to fall of it's own weight.

A lot of people see this and have been writing more an more about it lately, maybe because the Yankees won the series. But, it still amazes me how many turn a blind eye to it. How in the he** can you have a league without even a semblance of competitive balance?

[blumj]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I had just read that article too. I found it rather amusing all the proposed trades in the comments. Seems like a lot of people want Phillips. The Red Sox fans are freaking delusional though. Mike Lowell for Phillips? Good grief.

In regards to Frazier...I was under the impression that he did rather poorly to rather pedestrian defensively at second and that he's nowhere close to ready for the bigs at that position. His bat, yes...his glove AT SECOND...no. Maybe someone with first hand knowledge can enlighten us.

~edit~ Hehe, saw a better one. Phillips AND Volquez for Lowell and Bowden. Holy crap, what are they putting in the water there in Boston? Sheesh!

The guy who started that isn't a Red Sox fan, I think it's kind of a half running gag/half troll type thing. But I'm sure the real Red Sox fans came up with some whoppers of their own, anyway.

[LoganBuck]

My retinas are burning after reading that.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Santo Alcala

Baseball is going to keep pummeling markets like Cincinnati until there is a new labor agreement. There is a LOT to like about the club the way it currently exists, a lot of hard work to get it to this point. But it is an absolute crime that they may have to start dismantling it when they are finally close to a breakthrough. All this talk of not being one or two players away from a contender is nonsense... that is exactly what this team is if you put a guy like Matt Holliday or Jayson Bay in the middle of this lineup. I can't blame ownership, and I can't blame fans who feel so cheated by the economics of the game that they don't want to attend games. I attend 10-15 games a year, and it is almost a meloncholy feeling of futility going down there even if the Reds win the game, because a dark cloud of impending doom no matter how well they play for any stretch of games is always hovering.

I blame baseball, not the organization. BCast might not know how to do it exactly, but I believe he desperately wants to win. Baseball is like the Roman Empire flourishing on it's conquests now. But the more teams that get tossed onto the scrap heap like this one the sooner the cracks, and soon gaping crevaces will begin to appear on it's facade until it begins to fall of it's own weight.

A lot of people see this and have been writing more an more about it lately, maybe because the Yankees won the series. But, it still amazes me how many turn a blind eye to it. How in the he** can you have a league without even a semblance of competitive balance?

Excellent post SA!

[Kc61]

If the Reds trade Harang, Arroyo, Cordero, or even two of them, for decent value, I'll be ok with it. I'd prefer to keep Coco because the pen will explode without him IMO. Harang and Arroyo have one year left and I could live with a trade of one now, maybe the other later in the season, with some pitching coming back.

If the Reds trade Phillips, I will be extremely angry. Unless they trade for a star player, there is no justification for such a trade that will satisfy me. He is affordable, under the team's control, and its best all around player.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by Kc61

If the Reds trade Harang, Arroyo, Cordero, or even two of them, for some value, I'll be ok with it. I'd prefer to keep Coco and one of the starters. Coco has a big salary but the bullpen will fall apart without him. They would need to get pitching back.

If the Reds trade Phillips, I will be extremely angry. Unless they trade for a star player, there is no justification for such a trade that will satisfy me.

Trades of vets for near-term young contributors is pretty much a shattered paradigm at this point. That might change--and it might change soon--but I've yet to see any signs of it. It might be best to just wait for the contracts of these players to run out and re-sign them at a greatly discounted rate (in comparison to their current contracts).

It's either that or the Reds themselves need to start swapping young contributors for vets. Probably the only real options they've got right now. Oh, or sitting on their hands and waiting for the kids to grow.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Trades of vets for near-term young contributors is pretty much a shattered paradigm at this point. That might change--and it might change soon--but I've yet to see any signs of it. It might be best to just wait for the contracts of these players to run out and re-sign them at a greatly discounted rate (in comparison to their current contracts).

If the Reds are willing to actually try to re-sign these pitchers, that works for me. Both will earn much less next time around. Whether they will work at "Reds rates" is a different question.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Originally Posted by BrooklynRedz

Absolute madness. If the front office can't afford the payroll as currently positioned, sell the franchise. Or move it. Or contract it. Or, here's a thought: do a better job marketing your product and selling tickets. Give the fans a compelling reason to tune in. Give the local broadcasters an incentive to purchase your media rights. This annual song and dance from the front office about why they can't compete or keep the talent is antithetic to all other attempts the club is doing to sell the product.

I agree--and Santo Alcala, while I don't disagree with you, there is nothing stopping all the small and mid-market owners from fighting the Yankees and a few other clubs for a different form of revenue sharing before dealing with the labor situation.