John Fay Kidnapped By Aliens...

[BCubb2003]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

I realize it's a small sample size, but the Reds played .600 ball at the end of last season. Consider:

They got rid of a HUGE black hole at 3B (one reason I like the Rolen deal-- it obviously improved the team, no matter the cost).

They got rid of another in CF with Stubbs.

They got rid of a third black hole in the fourth starter spot with Bailey, who can now be counted on as a solid starter rather than a gigantic question mark. (Any team in baseball would want Bailey in its rotation at this point, something that certainly couldn't be said before July.)

Gomes provided an above average bat for LF and Bruce got better in RF. Not only that, Francisco hit well in an extremely short try-out and he and Heisey should provide some depth at the minor league level in case someone goes down.

True, their fifth and sixth black holes (SS and C) haven't been addressed. Too, it's also possible Gomes is non-tendered and either Dickerson, Heisey, or Francisco end up in LF rather than as bench and/or AAA depth.

But this isn't the team they played with in the middle of the summer. It's a much better product.

I agree. I understand the caution about late-season signs of life (in previous years it's been when support grows to keep the interim manager for next year), but these were structural improvements in the team. Also, we aren't remembering just how devastating the injuries were for most of the season. Off the charts, legendary amount of injuries.

I guess the one caution now is whether the off-season moves will create another set of poor lineup choices that the team eventually has to overcome to right itself.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

Absorbent? I think he meant exorbitant (as in very expensive).

Hey, we're talkin' Fay here. One mistake/typo...I think he really WAS kidnapped by aliens because that's impressive for Mr. Fay. :O)

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by BCubb2003

I agree. I understand the caution about late-season signs of life (in previous years it's been when support grows to keep the interim manager for next year), but these were structural improvements in the team.

Playing the Pirates and some other losers a bunch of times in the final stretch didn't hurt either.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

Playing the Pirates and some other losers a bunch of times in the final stretch didn't hurt either.

And the Cardinals, Cubs, Rockies and Marlins. But don't let the facts get in the way.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by Chip R

And the Cardinals, Cubs, Rockies and Marlins. But don't let the facts get in the way.

Don't those facts include a 4 game beatdown of the Reds by the Rockies?

We've read this script before; I'm throwing it back on the slush pile.

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by paulrichjr

This kind of stuff is the exact reason why my mouth fell open when the Rolen trade was made. Not to beat a dead horse but they had to know then that the budget for 2010 was tight. They had to know then that Rolen could have been picked up cheaper in the winter of 2009 than in the summer of 2009. If trades are made to save $5 million or so then you have to wonder about Walt and Bob even more than you already do taking into account that trade.

Yep. Scott Rolen will be 35 years old next April. Acquiring Rolen made sense if you were trying to make the playoffs in 2009, which the Reds obviously would not do, or if you were trying to make a post-season run in 2010. A salary dump of Phillips or even Arroyo would be an admission by the Reds that they know they have no post-season hopes in 2010; if so, then acquiring players as old as Rolen makes no sense.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Don't those facts include a 4 game beatdown of the Reds by the Rockies?

We've read this script before; I'm throwing it back on the slush pile.

It does but they weren't playing the Pirates every game.

Now was that when they were still playing with that "nothing-to-lose mindset" you talked about earlier?

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by Chip R

It does but they weren't playing the Pirates every game.

Now was that when they were still playing with that "nothing-to-lose mindset" you talked about earlier?

Yep. They faced a pretty okay Rockies club (let's face it, the West is just terrible--it's almost as bad as the Central) with their best starters and still got swept four straight.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Yep. They faced a pretty okay Rockies club (let's face it, the West is just terrible--it's almost as bad as the Central) with their best starters and still got swept four straight.

The Reds should have been so bad.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by Chip R

The Reds should have been so bad.

No kidding.

[WebScorpion]

Originally Posted by RedsBaron

Yep. Scott Rolen will be 35 years old next April. Acquiring Rolen made sense if you were trying to make the playoffs in 2009, which the Reds obviously would not do, or if you were trying to make a post-season run in 2010. A salary dump of Phillips or even Arroyo would be an admission by the Reds that they know they have no post-season hopes in 2010; if so, then acquiring players as old as Rolen makes no sense.

Unless of course, you happen to have a whole slew of young players who can benefit from a living example of how to be a professional and what it takes to get to the post-season and win. Like Barry Larkin, Rolen is known to work as hard on his defense as he does on his offense...if a guy who plays defense that well is still constantly working to improve it, that says something. Two seasons of that living example may pay dividends for a decade.

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by WebScorpion

Unless of course, you happen to have a whole slew of young players who can benefit from a living example of how to be a professional and what it takes to get to the post-season and win. Like Barry Larkin, Rolen is known to work as hard on his defense as he does on his offense...if a guy who plays defense that well is still constantly working to improve it, that says something. Two seasons of that living example may pay dividends for a decade.

That kinda stuff is way overblown IMHO. More often than not it's something good to say about guys on the down side of their productive years. It sounds good so it gets repeated. The more it's repeated the more folks believe in it.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by WebScorpion

Unless of course, you happen to have a whole slew of young players who can benefit from a living example of how to be a professional and what it takes to get to the post-season and win. Like Barry Larkin, Rolen is known to work as hard on his defense as he does on his offense...if a guy who plays defense that well is still constantly working to improve it, that says something. Two seasons of that living example may pay dividends for a decade.

I keep hearing this about Rolen, but looking back here is what I see:

1. Wear out the welcome in Philly - force a trade.
2. Pout and feud publicly with the Manager in St. Louis - force a trade.
3. Whine about being homesick in Toronto - force a trade.

Rolen brings great defense at 3B with a competent (but no longer game changing) bat. Maybe his leadership is great as well but other than hearing people repeat it all the time the evidence suggests that he has a selfish darkside. If this was about leadership, there were plenty of choices that didn't cost the team its top pitching prospect and eat up the rest of its payflex. I hope Rolen can stay on the field because his offense and defense combo helps the team and the cost was tremendous.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by mth123

I keep hearing this about Rolen, but looking back here is what I see:

1. Wear out the welcome in Philly - force a trade.
2. Pout and feud publicly with the Manager in St. Louis - force a trade.
3. Whine about being homesick in Toronto - force a trade.

Rolen brings great defense at 3B with a competent (but no longer game changing) bat. Maybe his leadership is great as well but other than hearing people repeat it all the time the evidence suggests that he has a selfish darkside. If this was about leadership, there were plenty of choices that didn't cost the team its top pitching prospect and eat up the rest of its payflex. I hope Rolen can stay on the field because his offense and defense combo helps the team and the cost was tremendous.

1. Its Philly. They booed Santa Clause. If the Phillies are bad it is a miserable place to be.

2. He had a pretty darn good run in StL. I don't fault him for having a fued with LaRussa. I think his time in StL had come to an end.

3. Seriously its Canada. They have 10 months of winter in Canada. But in all reality wouldn't you want out of Toronto when you have a pretty good ball club but continue to finish 4th in the division?

I don't fault the Rolen trade at all. I like him as a ball player and think he can be a good clubhouse player. Heck anything is better than the E5 over at 3b. Maybe there was culture change that needed to happen with the Reds. Maybe Rolen brings that to the table. All I know from watching him is that he always knows the situation and what to do if the ball is hit to him. Say what you want about his bat or his back for that matter. Rolen is a solid ball player who will make the Reds better.

[princeton]

worried that Rolen won't get along with the manager?

then make him the manager