Ohio State - Michigan 2009

[REDblooded]

I HATE it that Michigan isn't going after Kelly... His 2 jobs previous to UC were Michigan schools, so he obviously has connections there. Michigan's defense this season was putrid, and that was with some actual good talent on defense with Brandon Graham, Warren, and Brown. At the VERY LEAST they need to get rid of Robinson. He's a turd.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by GAC

the Big 10 NEEDS that Michigan program to restore itself to being one of the nation's elite teams again. It will help the conference too overall.

Yes it would really help the conference if Michigan and the other's improved, also it would help Ohio State improve.

Now I am going out and wrestle some ten year olds and claim victory and a championship... ... Not.

[Chip R]

Ohio State = Not that good according to Michigan's punter.

http://today.sportingnews.com/sporti...&folio=20#pg20

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Ohio State = Not that good according to Michigan's punter.

http://today.sportingnews.com/sporti...&folio=20#pg20

The punter? I wonder what his opinion is of his own team then? I wonder if he will be openly expressing that to his coach.

[15fan]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

West Virginia was a juggernaut under Rodriguez. The results of one game mean little in the grand scheme of things.

Except it wasn't just any game. I'd argue it was the 2nd most important game in WVU history, second only to the Tony Rice / Major Harris Fiesta Bowl about 20 years ago.

All he had to do was beat a very bad Pitt team coached by Dave Wannstedt, and WV would go on to the national title game. The game was in Morgantown. The refs did everything they could to give WVU the game, with all sorts of late/bogus holding calls.

Even after Pat White went down, RR still had a kid in the backfield named Steve Slaton. As in Steve Slaton who rushed for almost 1300 yards last season as a rookie with Houston. And Noel Devine was available as well. They combined for 16 carries & 22 yards.

Somehow, someway, the offensive genius RichRod found a way to gag it away.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by 15fan

Except it wasn't just any game. I'd argue it was the 2nd most important game in WVU history, second only to the Tony Rice / Major Harris Fiesta Bowl about 20 years ago.

All he had to do was beat a very bad Pitt team coached by Dave Wannstedt, and WV would go on to the national title game. The game was in Morgantown. The refs did everything they could to give WVU the game, with all sorts of late/bogus holding calls.

Even after Pat White went down, RR still had a kid in the backfield named Steve Slaton. As in Steve Slaton who rushed for almost 1300 yards last season as a rookie with Houston. And Noel Devine was available as well. They combined for 16 carries & 22 yards.

Somehow, someway, the offensive genius RichRod found a way to gag it away.

Pitt wasn't as bad as their record, and it was a rivalry game. It happens. If you're going to pick out that one game, how about going back a year and looking at the Georgia game when WVU ROMPED the Bulldogs despite not having nearly as much NFL talent.

[MWM]

I agree with 15. It wasn't just that they lost the game when they were clearly the superior team and a win puts them in the national title game (the worst luck possible for Ohio State as I don't think they would have had much difficulty with WVU in the title game compared to LSU), it's how they looked in the loss. The team played incredibly tight, were clearly not prepared, and Rodriguez looked like he was in way over his head on the sidelines. That game reflected incredibly poorly on Rich Rod beyond just the result.

I never understood why it was universally accepted that Rodriguez was a great coach. He had 3 good years at WVU with mostly the same team. It was a good team, but it also coincided with the time when the Big East was pretty bad (similar to Ohio State's recent success in the Big Ten). If you look through the results of those years, they never really beat an elite team. The best win he had was a 3 point victory over Georgia in a bowl game (a pretty good win, but that's it). And he had at least one bad loss every single year.

His teams have never played defense well at all, and from all accounts his teams never played smart football and were generally undisciplined. He didn't have enough success at WVU over a long enough period to think it was a given he'd be able to transfer it to a big-time program. I thought he was a horrible fit the day he signed in Ann Arbor, but now I think it's even worse than I originally suspected.

Add to that the shady nature of his reputation and I just don't think he's going to last in a place like Ann Arbor. This whole practice log thing is very amateurish and should never happen in Michigan. After listening to the MIchigan AD, I'm sure he's going to get another year (Tommy Amaker got about 2 years more than he should have). But I firmly believe it's just postponing the inevitable. He's not cut out for a place like Ann Arbor. He should have firmly cemented himself right in Morgantown. He's going to look back one day (and probably very soon) and have one of those "WTF was I thinking" moments. He'll be able to be a coach in college football for a long time, but I have a feeling it's not going to be at an elite program. Just my $.02.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

Pitt wasn't as bad as their record, and it was a rivalry game. It happens. If you're going to pick out that one game, how about going back a year and looking at the Georgia game when WVU ROMPED the Bulldogs despite not having nearly as much NFL talent.

They won by 3 points. They actually got off to a 21-0 lead before barely holding off Georgia. Up 3, a risky fake punk with 2 minutes left allowed WVU to run out the clock. Had that not worked, Georgia would have had the ball with a chance to win. It was a very close game, almost blown by WVU. The racked up 502 yards of offense, but also gave up 501, typical of Rich Rod teams, a type of style that probably isn't going to work in the Big Ten where good defense is played (yes, they play good defense in the big ten. It's the offenses that are stuck in the flinstone era).

And that's looking at one game as well. To that point, Rich Rod was 0-3 in bowl games. He won that game and beat Georgia Tech the following year by 3 points to finish 2-3 in bowl games in his time at WVU. Other than the Georgia game, you can't really point to any other marquis wins other than things like beating Louisville or Rutgers in conference.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by MWM

They won by 3 points. They actually got off to a 21-0 lead before barely holding off Georgia. Up 3, a risky fake punk with 2 minutes left allowed WVU to run out the clock. Had that not worked, Georgia would have had the ball with a chance to win. It was a very close game, almost blown by WVU. The racked up 502 yards of offense, but also gave up 501, typical of Rich Rod teams, a type of style that probably isn't going to work in the Big Ten where good defense is played (yes, they play good defense in the big ten. It's the offenses that are stuck in the flinstone era).

And that's looking at one game as well. To that point, Rich Rod was 0-3 in bowl games. He won that game and beat Georgia Tech the following year by 3 points to finish 2-3 in bowl games in his time at WVU. Other than the Georgia game, you can't really point to any other marquis wins other than things like beating Louisville or Rutgers in conference.

Fair enough. You make some really good points. I don't think RichRod is a great coach by any means, and I think he's a horrible fit for that program, as I've stated a few times on here already. But I do think he's a good coach, and although his tenure at WVU wasn't exactly perfect, I don't think they'll duplicate that success any time soon.

[MWM]

Yeah, Michigan has put themselves in a really difficult situation. Rodriguez and his style of play requires a completely different type of player than the ones who were currently at Michigan and who are generally inclined to go to Michigan. If things don't work out with him, they're in a situation where they have to either choose a coach that can work with Rodriguez-style personnel, or be willing to wait for another re-tooling and transition period. That's what happens when you try to change things too drastically and don't fully appreciate the importance of fit.

One of the biggest concerns I had with Rodriguez is around defense, though. Michigan has historically been a great defensive program. They had to know with Rodriguez coming in the defense was going to be relegated to second priority. Looking forward, THAT is the bigger problem than the offense, IMO. I watched them play Wisconsin and it was amazing how easily Wisconsin just marched the ball up the field the entire game. That's not going to work in Michigan.

[Sea Ray]

What's really sad is that Michigan let Ryan Mallett go so they could play this smurf of a QB. If Michigan keeps this coach around for another year then they're just compounding their original mistake of hiring him in the first place

[MWM]

I agree. It's not too dissimilar from the Tyron Willingham firing. They didn't fire him because the record the last two years he was there. They fired him because it was OBVIOUS he was totally running the program into the ground and waiting any longer could made things even worse (not that they turned out rosy, but Ty's fingerprints were all over where the ND program went after Weis' first two years). I think if they look closely and take the ego out of the question (the current AD hired this guy), they'd see that the direction they're headed is not going to lead anywhere good.

[George Foster]

Originally Posted by REDblooded

I HATE it that Michigan isn't going after Kelly... His 2 jobs previous to UC were Michigan schools, so he obviously has connections there. Michigan's defense this season was putrid, and that was with some actual good talent on defense with Brandon Graham, Warren, and Brown. At the VERY LEAST they need to get rid of Robinson. He's a turd.

The Rumors in Athens are that Georgia will be going after Kelly. I'm a big SEC fan, and not to objective, but don't you think that winning at Michigan would be easier than in the SEC?

I think it would be easier for Kelly to recruit speed at Georgia. I think that both jobs are equal in prestige, but the SEC is the better conference right now.

I could make good arguments for taking both jobs.

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by George Foster

The Rumors in Athens are that Georgia will be going after Kelly. I'm a big SEC fan, and not to objective, but don't you think that winning at Michigan would be easier than in the SEC?

I think it would be easier for Kelly to recruit speed at Georgia. I think that both jobs are equal in prestige, but the SEC is the better conference right now.

I could make good arguments for taking both jobs.

No way Richt is gone after this year. He's still owed $2 mil a year for the next 4 years.

[REDblooded]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

What's really sad is that Michigan let Ryan Mallett go so they could play this smurf of a QB. If Michigan keeps this coach around for another year then they're just compounding their original mistake of hiring him in the first place

Go read up a bit...

But in the meantime, I'll spend 2 minutes talking about something I have absolutely zero education on...

Todays lesson... Brain Surgery.

I think it's really important when operating on a tumor to make sure you wash your hands thoroughly before beginning the operation. After that, carefully choose the spot where you will make your incision and mark it with a red sharpie. From here on out, it's all about feel. Too deep and your patient is in worse shape than he started in...

That concludes today's lesson on Brain Surgery.


Now that that's out of the way...

Mallet wasn't run off so they could bring in Forcier. Mallet chose to leave the program pretty much as soon as the coaching decision was made. It was probably a pretty poor idea, because Rodriguez has the ability to adapt his offense to fit the personnel. He's actually had very successful offenses in the past without a mobile QB. Ah... And Forcier didn't join Michigan until this past winter. Over a full year after Mallet made the decision to transfer... Makes it pretty tough to connect the two doesn't it?