Ohio State - Michigan 2009

[REDblooded]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Ohio State = Not that good according to Michigan's punter.

http://today.sportingnews.com/sporti...&folio=20#pg20

Without reading the article... They really aren't that good... Think about this... If the Michigan FG kicker doesn't miss a chip shot in the first half and they get 2 fg's instead of Forciers 2 boneheaded INT's deep in Tosu territory in the 4th quarter, Michigan either loses by 1, or gets the ball back with a chance to kick a FG for a win.... And Michigan is pretty terrible this season... Heck, take away Forcier's stupid mistake of fumbling on his own goalline, and they don't even need to get the ball back late...

Ohio State is decent. But they're not good. I would say on any given day they would lose 10 of 15 against the top 15 non Big 10 schools.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by REDblooded

Without reading the article... They really aren't that good... Think about this... If the Michigan FG kicker doesn't miss a chip shot in the first half and they get 2 fg's instead of Forciers 2 boneheaded INT's deep in Tosu territory in the 4th quarter, Michigan either loses by 1, or gets the ball back with a chance to kick a FG for a win.... And Michigan is pretty terrible this season... Heck, take away Forcier's stupid mistake of fumbling on his own goalline, and they don't even need to get the ball back late...

Ohio State is decent. But they're not good. I would say on any given day they would lose 10 of 15 against the top 15 non Big 10 schools.

Normally, I can follow that kind of logic. But Tressel is an anomaly that makes it difficult to what-if in games he coaches. If it's a closer game, he would have played it completely differently. As long as he has at least a TD lead, he's not goig to push anything on offense, but as soon as the gap narrows, he'll be a bit more agressive. I can't tell you how many games I've watched the last 8 years where it looks like they're not even trying on offense only to have the opposing team score and cut it close, then to have the offense seem to wake up and put together a great drive. It's frustrating, but it's nonetheless true with Tressel. If that FG is made and the game is closer, OSU would have played it a lot differently. That's not to say they would have been successful, but it would have looked different than it did.

Having said all that, I also agree OSU isn't all that good. The defense is excellent, but the offense is below average. If they ever HAVE to put up points to win a game, they're screwed.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by REDblooded

Without reading the article... They really aren't that good... Think about this... If the Michigan FG kicker doesn't miss a chip shot in the first half and they get 2 fg's instead of Forciers 2 boneheaded INT's deep in Tosu territory in the 4th quarter, Michigan either loses by 1, or gets the ball back with a chance to kick a FG for a win.... And Michigan is pretty terrible this season... Heck, take away Forcier's stupid mistake of fumbling on his own goalline, and they don't even need to get the ball back late...

Ohio State is decent. But they're not good. I would say on any given day they would lose 10 of 15 against the top 15 non Big 10 schools.

A lot of "Ifs" there.

Yeah, Michigan made mistakes. All teams make mistakes. I get so tired of hearing teams (not just Michigan either) say "We beat ourselves". It's like trying to take a petty slap at the opposition, even after you lost, and that they really didn't deserve to win.

It's like the OSU defense - which is pretty darn good - didn't have any hand in forcing Michigan into any of those mistakes at all. Stuff like reaching in and knocking the ball out of Forcier's hand in the endzone, putting pressure on a QB and forcing him into a bad mistake. That's happened with Pryor this year. So I guess one could argue that OSU should be undefeated IF certain situations had/hadn't happened in that USC and Purdue games. But again, it's part of the game.

Like my grandpa use to tell me.... "And if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt every time he hopped."

[6-4-3]

Stuff like reaching in and knocking the ball out of Forcier's hand in the endzone

That ball wasn't knocked out. He simply dropped it while scrambling, happened at least a half dozen times, if not more this year.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by MWM

Having said all that, I also agree OSU isn't all that good. The defense is excellent, but the offense is below average. If they ever HAVE to put up points to win a game, they're screwed.

I agree in a sense. Its a matter of semantics.

OSU has a pretty good team. You don't get the record they have by being bad. They can get away with what they do in the Big 10. Excellent defense, excellent kicking game, and a oh-yeah-we-have-an-offense. They win games, just not very pretty. OSU is like pizza, beer, or sex, even when they are bad, they are still pretty good. I'll take a 10-2 "down" year.

I'm just cringing though to think of them against Oregon or Stanford in the Rose Bowl though. The OSU defense is very good, but if they have to defend excellent athletes all over the field (like what west coast teams do), they can only keep that up for so long. An anemic offense will keep them on the field too long.

And I thought I'd never say this, but I want Michigan to get better too. Ohio State-Michigan used to really mean something.

And I have to say, Pryor is a phenomenal athlete, but not a very good QB. I don't know where he'll play in the NFL, but it won't be QB.

[15fan]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

And I thought I'd never say this, but I want Michigan to get better too. Ohio State-Michigan used to really mean something.

Nah.

The ledger isn't quite evened from the John Cooper era.

That's something that ought to be paid back.

With interest.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by REDblooded

Mallet wasn't run off so they could bring in Forcier. Mallet chose to leave the program pretty much as soon as the coaching decision was made. It was probably a pretty poor idea, because Rodriguez has the ability to adapt his offense to fit the personnel. He's actually had very successful offenses in the past without a mobile QB. Ah... And Forcier didn't join Michigan until this past winter. Over a full year after Mallet made the decision to transfer... Makes it pretty tough to connect the two doesn't it?

Rod is flexible? Actually I think that is one of his faults, his inability to adapt. He runs the spread style offense, and he is going to run that even if he doesn't have the personal to do so. Look at last years disastrous season when he tried to run the spread with Sheridan.

From an outsider's point of view Rod was an awful hire. But he did more damage when he first stepped on campus when he didn't adapt the Michigan tradition. His first move should have been to throw everything at Mallet and convince him to stay. He also had some other noticeable defections, one being Boren, that left his program in poor shape. Even the week leading up to OSU UM Rod had to deal with questions about him embracing the tradition of UM.

I don't think Rod's style of play will work at UM. I just don't see a full blown spread working at UM. And if the spread is to work at a school like UM they need a bigger QB than Forcier or Robinson. I just don't think they can take the pounding that schools like Iowa, PSU, or OSU will give them. It make work in the Big East where the athletes aren't as big or as fast, but not in the Big 10. Look at the successful spread teams in the SEC, it usually takes a big QB to run a spread because of the punishment they take.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by REDblooded

Mallet wasn't run off so they could bring in Forcier. Mallet chose to leave the program pretty much as soon as the coaching decision was made. It was probably a pretty poor idea, because Rodriguez has the ability to adapt his offense to fit the personnel. He's actually had very successful offenses in the past without a mobile QB. Ah... And Forcier didn't join Michigan until this past winter. Over a full year after Mallet made the decision to transfer... Makes it pretty tough to connect the two doesn't it?

You don't get it. Mallett left because he didn't want to be in a spread offense. Smart kid. In other words he left because of who Mich hired. So UM drove him off by who they hired. This left them to find a new QB, which was Forcier. If they'd hired a guy like Bobby Petrino or Steve Sarkisian, Mallett would have stayed and Mich would be much better off. It was a huge mistake from the get go to hire a spead option coach in Ann Arbor.

Dots connected...

[DTCromer]

Didn't Pryor want to go to OSU to develop him into a pro QB?

:facepalm

[KoryMac5]

Michigan's AD speaks on the coaching situation:

Michigan athletic director Bill Martin also endorsed Rodriguez on Saturday.
“Rich Rodriguez is our coach,” he said. “I and the administration fully support him, and you’ll see him in the future.”
When asked if that meant next year, Martin said, “Absolutely.”
Even if Michigan is found to have committed NCAA violations regarding excessive practice time?
“He will be our coach next year, today,” Martin said.
Asked to clarify what “today” meant, Martin said, “Well then delete the word today.”
“He’ll be here next year, no question,” Martin said.

That 4 million dollar buyout might have something to do with giving coach another year.

Personally I think 2 years is not enough time to install an entirely new system into a program and expect success. If Michigan continues to lose next year look for the rumors to swirl and a certain Stanford coach to become highly sought after. However I would expect some changes on the defensive side of the ball. Michigan was pounded in some of their losses.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

Michigan's AD speaks on the coaching situation:



That 4 million dollar buyout might have something to do with giving coach another year.

Personally I think 2 years is not enough time to install an entirely new system into a program and expect success. If Michigan continues to lose next year look for the rumors to swirl and a certain Stanford coach to become highly sought after. However I would expect some changes on the defensive side of the ball. Michigan was pounded in some of their losses.

2 years probably isn't enough time but I didn't like the hire from the beginning. If Mich is too stubborn to see their mistake now then they'll err twice

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by KoryMac5

That 4 million dollar buyout might have something to do with giving coach another year.

Personally I think 2 years is not enough time to install an entirely new system into a program and expect success. If Michigan continues to lose next year look for the rumors to swirl and a certain Stanford coach to become highly sought after. However I would expect some changes on the defensive side of the ball. Michigan was pounded in some of their losses.

I agree with you that 2 years isn't enough. But from my perspective it has been 2 years of excuse making. IMO Rodriguez has done more damage in two years than any of his predictors. I equate Michigan's stature to that of OSU's. There is absolutely no reason that you should have 2 below .500 seasons and 2 bowl less seasons. The cupboard is never that bare at UM. Even if it is bare, it still is better than half of the teams in their league.

As a buckeye fan it never gets old beating UM. But I do miss that excitement before the game. The games in 02, 03, 04, 06, 07 were big time national games. That I do miss.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Originally Posted by REDblooded

Without reading the article... They really aren't that good... Think about this... If the Michigan FG kicker doesn't miss a chip shot in the first half and they get 2 fg's instead of Forciers 2 boneheaded INT's deep in Tosu territory in the 4th quarter, Michigan either loses by 1, or gets the ball back with a chance to kick a FG for a win.... And Michigan is pretty terrible this season... Heck, take away Forcier's stupid mistake of fumbling on his own goalline, and they don't even need to get the ball back late...

Ohio State is decent. But they're not good. I would say on any given day they would lose 10 of 15 against the top 15 non Big 10 schools.

If OSU wanted to open it up they could have won that game something like 49-21. They would have scored a lot more and turned the ball over a few times and Mich would have gotten a couple more scores. But that's not JT's style. OSU was in complete control of that game and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

OSU could play with any top team right now because of their D and their style. A great offensive team would probably beat them most of the time. The thing is there isn't a great offensive team in college football this year. Some teams have shown flashes (like Texas and Oregon) but have been inconsitent.

[REDblooded]

Another thing about Martin (Michigan AD)... Not sure why he's speaking on the situation... Isn't he on the way out?

[REDblooded]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

You don't get it. Mallett left because he didn't want to be in a spread offense. Smart kid. In other words he left because of who Mich hired. So UM drove him off by who they hired. This left them to find a new QB, which was Forcier. If they'd hired a guy like Bobby Petrino or Steve Sarkisian, Mallett would have stayed and Mich would be much better off. It was a huge mistake from the get go to hire a spead option coach in Ann Arbor.

Dots connected...

Yeah, but you don't HAVE to have a mobile QB to make a spread work... UC does just fine when Pike is in the game...