Do parents have a right to take unruly kids on a plane?

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I remember things from as young as age 3. I knew why I was getting spanked. I knew when I did something I wasn't supposed to what would happen. Maybe I was just a lot smarter than other kids are?

Have to agree with you, Doug. I was spanked as a child, and not very often. I found that I didn't enjoy it and I knew that my parents didn't either. I knew why I was getting spanked and could always hear the disappointment in their voices when I had messed up that badly. My parents would always explain things to me, at length. I hated the explanations nearly as bad as the spanking. Like you, I knew the difference between right and wrong and the consequences at a very young age. Has had absolutely zero negative affect on me as an adult or a child. Maybe I was smarter than other kids, as well. Saying that kids can't understand things as simple as good and bad behavior is a bit silly, in my opinion. Coddle and feed that type of attitude and you have a major problem going forward. Much easier to deal with at and early age. I believe that teaching right, wrong, and the consequences of bad behavior is essential in the early years of a child's life. I have never spanked my son. He has always understood the expectations that we have given him with regard to behavior, but with that said and based on my own experience, I would not hesitate to use that form of discipline if I felt it were needed.

[jimbo]

Unruly children on a plane was my main motivation for buying the iPod I currently own. Crying baby right behind me? Turn up the volume.

[KittyDuran]

Originally Posted by jimbo

Unruly children on a plane was my main motivation for buying the iPod I currently own. Crying baby right behind me? Turn up the volume.

Also comes in handy at restaurants as well... I try not to be too rude and make a big show of putting the earplugs in!

[frenetic wave]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

Have to agree with you, Doug. I was spanked as a child, and not very often. I found that I didn't enjoy it and I knew that my parents didn't either. I knew why I was getting spanked and could always hear the disappointment in their voices when I had messed up that badly. My parents would always explain things to me, at length. I hated the explanations nearly as bad as the spanking. Like you, I knew the difference between right and wrong and the consequences at a very young age. Has had absolutely zero negative affect on me as an adult or a child. Maybe I was smarter than other kids, as well. Saying that kids can't understand things as simple as good and bad behavior is a bit silly, in my opinion. Coddle and feed that type of attitude and you have a major problem going forward. Much easier to deal with at and early age. I believe that teaching right, wrong, and the consequences of bad behavior is essential in the early years of a child's life. I have never spanked my son. He has always understood the expectations that we have given him with regard to behavior, but with that said and based on my own experience, I would not hesitate to use that form of discipline if I felt it were needed.

The problem with this line of thinking is kids who were actually severely abused (hit with dangerous objects, whipped by power cords) all believe that they deserved that punishment. Even as adults they believe that it is their fault and that they were such terrible children that they deserved to be abused. Many times it isn't until a medical professional or some authoritative figure tells them "It wasn't your fault. What could an 8 year old possibly do that warrants having a dangerous object thrown at you?" that they realize they were abused and it wasn't their fault. So if people who are majorly abused can believe their abuse was warranted or that they "understood it" as a child, I can totally believe on a much smaller scale that people who were spanked/hit can believe that they deserved it and it was normal and they totally understood it all as a child.

Also, I know YOU GUYS AREN'T saying this (so again don't hit me), but the line about being "smarter" than most kids your age is what a lot of kids who were abused or molested say about themselves. They feel like their abuse caused them to grow up quicker, and maybe it did, but the point is they shouldn't grow up faster like that. Kids should be kids and develop naturally. The act of trying to make a 3 year old understand and process the difference of "lesson hitting" and "bad hitting" is a little strange in and of itself. Again, maybe everyone is the exception but I don't discount any hitting/spanking as harmless because many times the fruits of that tree don't emerge clearly or obviously for many many many years.

[15fan]

My dad was on the road a lot as a kid, so most nights, it was mom and 3 kids w/in 5 years of age. No relatives in town or nearby, so if mom had to go to the store or take a sick kid to the doctor, she had no choice but to take all of us.

We each learned early on that stepping out of line meant a stern hand across the butt. There wasn't time for her to try to reason with an unruly kid with 2 others in tow. That would happen later. But for the sake of nipping the bad attitudes and tantrums right then and there, it was a swat on the butt.

In retrospect, I probably should have been whacked across the butt a whole lot more than I was.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

Have to agree with you, Doug. I was spanked as a child, and not very often. I found that I didn't enjoy it and I knew that my parents didn't either. I knew why I was getting spanked and could always hear the disappointment in their voices when I had messed up that badly. My parents would always explain things to me, at length. I hated the explanations nearly as bad as the spanking. Like you, I knew the difference between right and wrong and the consequences at a very young age. Has had absolutely zero negative affect on me as an adult or a child. Maybe I was smarter than other kids, as well. Saying that kids can't understand things as simple as good and bad behavior is a bit silly, in my opinion. Coddle and feed that type of attitude and you have a major problem going forward. Much easier to deal with at and early age. I believe that teaching right, wrong, and the consequences of bad behavior is essential in the early years of a child's life. I have never spanked my son. He has always understood the expectations that we have given him with regard to behavior, but with that said and based on my own experience, I would not hesitate to use that form of discipline if I felt it were needed.

Yep...same boat here. I was spanked rarely, but my parents would use it only in cases where it was something severe and I have to tell you, it worked. No long lasting effects here and it absolutely scared the daylights ouf of me into doing such a thing again.

I think spanking can work and can be very effective, but it's about how it works. And an explanation should always be provided afterwards as to why it happened, clarifying it for the child.

Of course, all children are created differently and what may work great for 1 kid may not for another. It's a judgment call on the part of the parents to figure out what works best.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by frenetic wave

The problem with this line of thinking is kids who were actually severely abused (hit with dangerous objects, whipped by power cords) all believe that they deserved that punishment. Even as adults they believe that it is their fault and that they were such terrible children that they deserved to be abused. Many times it isn't until a medical professional or some authoritative figure tells them "It wasn't your fault. What could an 8 year old possibly do that warrants having a dangerous object thrown at you?" that they realize they were abused and it wasn't their fault. So if people who are majorly abused can believe their abuse was warranted or that they "understood it" as a child, I can totally believe on a much smaller scale that people who were spanked/hit can believe that they deserved it and it was normal and they totally understood it all as a child.

Also, I know YOU GUYS AREN'T saying this (so again don't hit me), but the line about being "smarter" than most kids your age is what a lot of kids who were abused or molested say about themselves. They feel like their abuse caused them to grow up quicker, and maybe it did, but the point is they shouldn't grow up faster like that. Kids should be kids and develop naturally. The act of trying to make a 3 year old understand and process the difference of "lesson hitting" and "bad hitting" is a little strange in and of itself. Again, maybe everyone is the exception but I don't discount any hitting/spanking as harmless because many times the fruits of that tree don't emerge clearly or obviously for many many many years.

The simple truth is that I've never once heard an argument that hitting/spanking a child was preferable to some other method, even in the heat of the moment. Never once has that been articulated to me satisfactorily.

[RANDY IN INDY]

I remember corporal punishment in school. All the teachers had the "board of education" and they used them, in the classroom, right in front of the rest of the class. Some were a little "paddle happy," at that. Seemed like someone was getting it every day. That was a "little crazy." I remember getting it once in 8th grade for getting up and sharpening my pencil. I didn't raise my hand. That was "a lot crazy."

Nevertheless, I really don't think I am scarred from any of those episodes. I do remember kids who came to school with bruises and cuts, the result of abusive parents. In those cases, I think those kids were terribly messed up and scarred. They were then. They probably are now.

There are always going to be crazy people. I am thankful that my parents were not.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by frenetic wave

The problem with this line of thinking is kids who were actually severely abused (hit with dangerous objects, whipped by power cords) all believe that they deserved that punishment. Even as adults they believe that it is their fault and that they were such terrible children that they deserved to be abused. Many times it isn't until a medical professional or some authoritative figure tells them "It wasn't your fault. What could an 8 year old possibly do that warrants having a dangerous object thrown at you?" that they realize they were abused and it wasn't their fault. So if people who are majorly abused can believe their abuse was warranted or that they "understood it" as a child, I can totally believe on a much smaller scale that people who were spanked/hit can believe that they deserved it and it was normal and they totally understood it all as a child.

Also, I know YOU GUYS AREN'T saying this (so again don't hit me), but the line about being "smarter" than most kids your age is what a lot of kids who were abused or molested say about themselves. They feel like their abuse caused them to grow up quicker, and maybe it did, but the point is they shouldn't grow up faster like that. Kids should be kids and develop naturally. The act of trying to make a 3 year old understand and process the difference of "lesson hitting" and "bad hitting" is a little strange in and of itself. Again, maybe everyone is the exception but I don't discount any hitting/spanking as harmless because many times the fruits of that tree don't emerge clearly or obviously for many many many years.

There is a large difference between spanking a child and child abuse though. I can't say that I know of a single kid who was spanked who didn't know why it happened. When it comes to abuse, that is different.

I guess my question is what defines 'developing naturally'? Kids were spanked for ever up until probably the last 20-50 years. I don't think previous generations had some crazy problems because 90% of the population was spanked when they misbehaved.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by frenetic wave

The problem with this line of thinking is kids who were actually severely abused (hit with dangerous objects, whipped by power cords) all believe that they deserved that punishment. Even as adults they believe that it is their fault and that they were such terrible children that they deserved to be abused. Many times it isn't until a medical professional or some authoritative figure tells them "It wasn't your fault. What could an 8 year old possibly do that warrants having a dangerous object thrown at you?" that they realize they were abused and it wasn't their fault. So if people who are majorly abused can believe their abuse was warranted or that they "understood it" as a child, I can totally believe on a much smaller scale that people who were spanked/hit can believe that they deserved it and it was normal and they totally understood it all as a child.

Also, I know YOU GUYS AREN'T saying this (so again don't hit me), but the line about being "smarter" than most kids your age is what a lot of kids who were abused or molested say about themselves. They feel like their abuse caused them to grow up quicker, and maybe it did, but the point is they shouldn't grow up faster like that. Kids should be kids and develop naturally. The act of trying to make a 3 year old understand and process the difference of "lesson hitting" and "bad hitting" is a little strange in and of itself. Again, maybe everyone is the exception but I don't discount any hitting/spanking as harmless because many times the fruits of that tree don't emerge clearly or obviously for many many many years.

That's getting old and it's pretty condescending toward people that have different opinions than you.

So far I agree with everything Doug and Randy have said. I don't feel I was abused. I was never hit, I was spanked. And never anywhere but on the butt. My Dad was good about not doing it in anger either. We usually sat down and had a talk about what was going to happen and why and then another talk after the spanking.

[westofyou]

My wife got "beat", I got "spanked", nobody's individual exprience as a child will dissuade those who were "beaten" as a child that they were just getting "spanked" no matter how enightened you try and make the punishment sound on either side of the equation.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by westofyou

My wife got "beat", I got "spanked", nobody's individual exprience as a child will dissuade those who were "beaten" as a child that they were just getting "spanked" no matter how enightened you try and make the punishment sound on either side of the equation.

I agree, I think it's up to each person. I certainly don't feel that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong. It's an important and personal choice. I definitely respect the opinions of posters like FCB and Scrap.

My wife was also "beat", but we are in agreement on spanking. Our son is still too young so we haven't actually had to cross that bridge and it's one that neither of us look forward to.

I just think that comments like "don't hit me (because you believe in spanking your kids so you can't have a disagreement with someone with out punching them)" are unnecessary.

[Yachtzee]

"Now I know why tigers eat their young."

With regard to spanking, I can remember growing up in my neighborhood in Lima, just about every kid got spanked when they got in serious trouble, but we all knew the one kid who was going to get a beating. Whereas most of us would look unhappy and know we were going to have to face the punishment, nothing could compare to the look on that kid's when he was in trouble. Just a look of shear terror at the notion of his dad coming home and finding out.

Whether you agree with spanking or not, I think it's important that kids know why they're are being punished (whatever form that may take) and that its not being done out of anger.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Whether you agree with spanking or not, I think it's important that kids know why they're are being punished (whatever form that may take) and that its not being done out of anger.

With a high-energy 16th month old buzzing around that's been what I've been holding onto to. If I feel myself getting angry/frustrated I really try to check my tongue and other actions. Can't say I've always been successful but it's a good rule of thumb that if I've gotten angry I need to avoid any serious parenting if possible so I can cool down.

We've tried to employ a multitude of tactics to deal with behavior and have reserved a hand-smack for extreme situations. I'm not against spanking but it has to be used sparingly and it's not appropriate until the child is older and can have the reasoning explained to them.

The hand-smacks were reserved for the time she was trying to remove the cover from the power outlet and the time she bit momma's hand. The biting incident was more of an instinctual reaction from me and she hasn't done it since (so did it work or is it coincidence?). The power outlet moment was something we discussed before hand and a threat serious enough to warrant physical discipline.

As she advances in age/intellect I know our discipline bag of tricks will change. I'm operating under the premise that the more sophisticated the child becomes the more sophisticated the discipline can be.

Whatever discipline tactics (and there should be many) are used, all I ask is that fellow parents try. We all understand that sometimes kids are going to have bad days. My biggest pet peeve is the classic situation in the restaurant where the kids are running amok and the parents are sitting there oblivious.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

With a high-energy 16th month old buzzing around that's been what I've been holding onto to. If I feel myself getting angry/frustrated I really try to check my tongue and other actions. Can't say I've always been successful but it's a good rule of thumb that if I've gotten angry I need to avoid any serious parenting if possible so I can cool down.

We've tried to employ a multitude of tactics to deal with behavior and have reserved a hand-smack for extreme situations. I'm not against spanking but it has to be used sparingly and it's not appropriate until the child is older and can have the reasoning explained to them.

The hand-smacks were reserved for the time she was trying to remove the cover from the power outlet and the time she bit momma's hand. The biting incident was more of an instinctual reaction from me and she hasn't done it since (so did it work or is it coincidence?). The power outlet moment was something we discussed before hand.

Whatever discipline tactics (and there should be many) are used, all I ask is that fellow parents try. We all understand that sometimes kids are going to have bad days. My biggest pet peeve is the classic situation in the restaurant where the kids are running amok and the parents are sitting there oblivious.

To me this is VERY different from spanking. But I might be wrong about that.