Funding approved for "3C" (Cincy-Cbus-Cle) Rail Line

[reds1869]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

OK, but what's the condition of the road? Is it crumbling?

It isn't bad at all. There are plenty of potholes, etc. but compared to roads in the northern and southern parts of the state it is paved with gold. I lived in Columbus for five years and I still laugh when folks up there complain about the "bad traffic."

[Redsfaithful]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

OK, but what's the condition of the road? Is it crumbling?

Nah, I rarely see or hit potholes.

Obviously this is subjective, it's possible there's bad interstate in parts of the city I don't go, but through the center (where the 70/71 split is) where I do travel the road is good.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Reds Freak

Then it's truly amazing how a project like that doesn't get the scrutiny as every rail project to ever be considered in this country..

The presumption, correctly or incorrectly, is that the overwhelming majority of taxpaying citizens drive on roads, whereas the train benefits a much smaller number.

[Reds Freak]

The thank you cards from California, Florida, Washington, Illinois, New York, Maine, Massachusetts, Missouri, Oregon, North Carolina, Iowa and Indiana should be in the mail to us Ohioans soon...

Think that rail car manufacturing company that was going to open a center in Ohio and bring hundreds of manufacturing jobs to our state will come here now? What about the construction, maintenance and operating jobs?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/us...l.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index....h-speed_r.html

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...o-go-elsewhere

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by Reds Freak

Think that rail car manufacturing company that was going to open a center in Ohio and bring hundreds of manufacturing jobs to our state will come here now? What about the construction, maintenance and operating jobs?

There was a POINT to be made. You can't let a little thing like jobs get in the way.

[paintmered]

The Feds pulled their funding as promised. This looks to be officially dead.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/us...ml?_r=2&ref=us

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Betterread

The project is not dead quite yet. Kasich is a key political part of the situation, but he is not the only one. The funding is predominantly federal, not state. And he has no power for two months, until he takes office. Look what Wisconsin did just before the election, last weekend, to see what a state can do to make HSPR funding possible even if the governor doesn't want it.

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Oh it's dead. It has no chance without Kasich's support

You believe it's dead now???

[Crumbley]

Tonight, I went to Sauder Village, a historical reenactment deal set in 1910. The guy playing the conductor was telling us about the marvel of train travel. His trains went 30 MPH. So, 100 years of progress brings Ohio a train that goes seven MPH faster? I love public transit and welcome new projects with open arms, but this never sounded like a good plan to me.

Very much looking forward to taking the streetcars next time I'm in Cincinnati. Trying to convince my girl to move there with me. Maybe they will be the tipping point.

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by Crumbley

His trains went 30 MPH. So, 100 years of progress brings Ohio a train that goes seven MPH faster?

Not 37 MPH. It was to average over 50 MPH. Not that it matters now. The big thing is that Kasich has moved to promising to kill the streetcar next, and the state wouldn't be funding the operation of it.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Not 37 MPH. It was to average over 50 MPH. Not that it matters now. The big thing is that Kasich has moved to promising to kill the streetcar next, and the state wouldn't be funding the operation of it.

The streetcar is another silly idea. Downtown doesn't have enough foot-traffic to need a circulator. And really, what's the point of a downtown streetcar if it doesn't include stops at BOTH stadia (PBS and GABP), the museum center, and the new casino?

The need in Cincinnati is for regional light rail -- both from the suburbs into downtown and cross-county to link the various parts of the region. Give people a way to get downtown without a car, then worry about getting people around downtown.

[Betterread]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

You believe it's dead now???

I know it. Dead for the present and the for the near future, as long as HSPR funding is based on competitive applications. As long as LaHood administration is around, Wisconsin and Ohio will have to re-establish credibility for their competitive federal grant applications. Their current credibility for promising project objectives hovers around "0".

[Reds Freak]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

The streetcar is another silly idea. Downtown doesn't have enough foot-traffic to need a circulator. And really, what's the point of a downtown streetcar if it doesn't include stops at BOTH stadia (PBS and GABP), the museum center, and the new casino?

The need in Cincinnati is for regional light rail -- both from the suburbs into downtown and cross-county to link the various parts of the region. Give people a way to get downtown without a car, then worry about getting people around downtown.

The streetcar will link the city's two largest employment centers and the city's biggest University with downtown. I also think it does include stops at both stadia.

But your argument ignores one of the major benefits of a streetcar, a benefit that has been proven to occur in every city that has streetcars. It's a benefit that some 40 other cities that are considering or in the planning stages for a streetcar system want to see. The benefit is economic development. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but streetcars have been proven to increase economic development along the route. Several businesses (Morelein Lager House, Hudepohl Brewing company, small shops in OTR) have already indicated they are opening along the route in part because of the streetcar.

At a time when the city needs an increase in tax revenue and economic activity, anything that has proven to do that should be pursued. And we tried to do a regional light rail system back in 2002 and Hamilton County voters turned it down...

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Reds Freak

The streetcar will link the city's two largest employment centers and the city's biggest University with downtown. I also think it does include stops at both stadia.

The university linked with downtown? OK, so I guess the students now have another options beyond the Bearcat Shuttle when they want to go boozing on a Friday/Saturday night (or Thursday, if they know what's good for them).

Where is the demand for a link between these parts? How much road traffic actually occurs from people who are at the university coming downtown or the other way around? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get the real sense that what's missing from downtown is an alternative route to get Uptown. It's not going to change the driving patterns of people who live in, say, Oakley or Hyde Park and go to class at UC. Maybe it makes places along the route viable alternatives for student / faculty / employee housing, but that's about five levels of speculative. They may be employment centers, but people arrive to their employment center in a car from the suburbs -- the need for mass transit is on that route.

Get people downtown, then figure out how to get them around when they're there.

But your argument ignores one of the major benefits of a streetcar, a benefit that has been proven to occur in every city that has streetcars. It's a benefit that some 40 other cities that are considering or in the planning stages for a streetcar system want to see. The benefit is economic development. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but streetcars have been proven to increase economic development along the route. Several businesses (Morelein Lager House, Hudepohl Brewing company, small shops in OTR) have already indicated they are opening along the route in part because of the streetcar.

"Economic Development" is a spongy term. How much economic development? Is the economic development any greater than would have been naturally occuring through things such as tax incentives and capital funds? Does the increased economic growth offset the operating losses that a streetcar imposes on the community?

Further, what were the circumstances in place in these other places? They're running the Cincinnati streetcar straight through the ghetto -- I'm skeptical of economic development following the streetcar into OTR when just about every other attempt at cleaning the area up has failed miserably in the last few decades.

At a time when the city needs an increase in tax revenue and economic activity, anything that has proven to do that should be pursued. And we tried to do a regional light rail system back in 2002 and Hamilton County voters turned it down...

Sad, but true. The demographics of Hamilton County are significantly different than those of the city. Put the trolley to a countywide vote, and it'd go down in flames too.

[Reds Freak]

CE, I'll direct you to this web site, which can speak to your points a heckuva lot better than I can. Here is a great page to start on. It shows a development map of the streetcar route...

http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/...velopment-map/

And I'm not sure how long it's been since you've been in OTR, but the progress the past few years has been substantial, especially in the 'Gateway Quarter' area, and will only continue with the redevelopment of Washington Park, casino, etc. It's not perfect, there are still trouble spots of course, but it is improving...

[paintmered]

I think CE works downtown.