Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year - Page 2 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Captain Hook · 01-30-2010, 11:46 PM

I was actually looking forward to seeing Yanish every day at SS.I guess 10 years of losing can do that to ya.

I would agree that this is an upgrade and should help some.

RedsManRick · 01-30-2010, 11:48 PM

With Cabrera's glove and bat both on the decline, I'm not terribly excited. But it's certainly better than Alex Gonzalez or JHJ.

BearcatShane · 01-30-2010, 11:50 PM

So....

Stubbs CF
Cabrera SS
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Gomes LF (Hopefully)
Hernandez/Hanigan C
Pitcher

It could be worse.

Ron Madden · 01-30-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

I was hoping it would be a minor league contract, or at worst a one-year deal worth no more than $2M. I'm not sure how much of an improvement Cabrera is over Janish at this point in his career. If Cabrera returns to 2008 form, he'll be a fairly big improvement over Janish. If he has another season like 2009 then he'll actually be a downgrade. Let's hope he can play more like the 2008 Orlando Cabrera instead of the 2009 version.

This pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

Captain Hook · 01-30-2010, 11:52 PM

It has been fairly undisputed that the Reds were weak at SS.I give them some credit for signing one the better if not best SS free agents this year.

dougdirt · 01-30-2010, 11:57 PM

If his defense is more career than 2009, I am ok with this. If his defense is very poor once again, then this is a terrible signing.

paulrichjr · 01-31-2010, 12:02 AM

And the one who loses the 40th spot is????????? Sutton? Taveras?

BearcatShane · 01-31-2010, 12:02 AM

I'm not going to throw a party because we signed Orlando Cabrera but I will admit I'm very happy with this signing. At the end of the year if you asked RedZone how they would feel if Paul Janish was the starting SS for 2010 the overwhelming majority would be totally against that. As the offseason went on it appeared the lovefest for Janish's defense got increasingly bigger and most posters would of been ok with him starting at SS for this year. I'm not one of those people, I like Janish but I feel there was a pretty decent chance he was going to start the season hitting .188 going into May and then we have a huge black hole in the lineup and were rotationg Sutton and Rosales in and out along with Janish getting terrible offensive production out of SS. Will it be a hit defensively? Yeah, Cabrera's getting older and with age comes decline, but with the offensive woes the Reds had in 2009, I'll take the potential extra offense and I'll live with the defensive hit the Reds might take. And please, if a ball happens to sneak through short on the second series of the year, please don't have 8 posts in the game thread say the same thing: Janish gets to that ball.

Superdude · 01-31-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Let's hope he can play more like the 2008 Orlando Cabrera instead of the 2009 version.

Both the '08 and the '09 version of Cabrera put up a .705 OPS? Did his defense get worse or something?

GADawg · 01-31-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

With Cabrera's glove and bat both on the decline, I'm not terribly excited. But it's certainly better than Alex Gonzalez or JHJ.

sums it up for me....have to admit though that I was anxious to see Janish get a chance and prove us all wrong

RedsManRick · 01-31-2010, 12:04 AM

FWIW, here's what PECOTA sees for Cabrera:

Code:

Percentile 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 
90o 		0.295	0.355	0.430
75o 		0.283	0.341	0.404
60o 		0.274	0.331	0.385
50o 		0.265	0.322	0.366
40o 		0.259	0.314	0.351
25o 		0.247	0.300	0.326
10o 		0.220	0.269	0.269
Weighted Mean 	0.268	0.325	0.372

And Paul Janish:

Code:

Percentile 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 
90o 		0.260	0.334	0.406
75o 		0.240	0.313	0.370
60o 		0.230	0.303	0.352
50o 		0.224	0.297	0.343
40o 		0.220	0.292	0.334
25o 		0.202	0.273	0.303
10o 		0.190	0.259	0.280
Weighted Mean 	0.223	0.296	0.341

I think Jansih is clearly the superior defender, but Cabrera is still likely an upgrade -- and the price is right. I'd have liked to see Janish get the opportunity personally, given that his BABIP have been ridiculously though, but I'm hardly going to complain about adding legitimate talent.

For me, the most interesting thing is who they take off the 40 man. I'd have to think it's Sutton. And if Gomes gets signed, then it will be an OF. We can only hope it's Taveras.

dougdirt · 01-31-2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdude

Both the '08 and the '09 version of Cabrera put up a .705 OPS? Did his defense get worse or something?

Yes. Both the numbers and scouting reports saw a big step down in the defense.

Scrap Irony · 01-31-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearcatShane

Stubbs CF
Cabrera SS
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Gomes LF (Hopefully)
Hernandez/Hanigan C
Pitcher

Taking the numbers put up by position last season for Cincinnati:

CF, SS, RF, and 3B should be light years better than last season.

2B and 1B may regress.

C and LF should be a bit better, but are much more difficult to discern.

Much improved from this time last season.

So, can we now quit with the whole Jocketty asleep at the wheel ridiculousness?

Spring~Fields · 01-31-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearcatShane

So....

Stubbs CF
Cabrera SS
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Gomes LF (Hopefully)
Hernandez/Hanigan C
Pitcher

It could be worse.

I think we might be looking at these below as some possibilities. I don't know who will get moved, but, I don't think it will be WT.

Code:

So....

Stubbs CF	vs. Right .261 .320 .420 .740		vs. Left .286 .333 .500 .833
Cabrera SS	vs. Right .289 .311 .400 .711		vs. Left .271 .327 .362 .689
Votto 1B	vs. Right .319 .419 .583 1.002	        vs. Left .329 .400 .531 .931
Phillips 2B	vs. Right .267 .324 .416 .740		vs. Left .301 .342 .541 .883
Rolen 3B	vs. Right .283 .338 .411 .749		vs. Left .374 .459 .591 1.050
Bruce RF	vs. Right .229 .299 .527 .826		vs. Left .210 .313 .330 .643
Gomes LF 	vs. Right .244 .320 .539 .859		vs. Left .307 .369 .545 .914
Hernandez	vs. Right .246 .332 .348 .680		vs. Left .288 .348 .400 .748
Pitcher

Tevaras CF	vs. Right .247 .285 .294 .579		vs. Left .219 .245 .257 .502
Cabrera SS	vs. Right .289 .311 .400 .711		vs. Left .271 .327 .362 .689
Votto 1B	vs. Right .319 .419 .583 1.002	        vs. Left .329 .400 .531 .931
Phillips 2B	vs. Right .267 .324 .416 .740		vs. Left .301 .342 .541 .883
Rolen 3B	vs. Right .283 .338 .411 .749		vs. Left .374 .459 .591 1.050
Bruce RF	vs. Right .229 .299 .527 .826		vs. Left .210 .313 .330 .643
Nix LF 	        vs. Right .249 .300 .502 .802		vs. Left .156 .206 .250 .456
Hernandez	vs. Right .246 .332 .348 .680		vs. Left .288 .348 .400 .748

OnBaseMachine · 01-31-2010, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdude

Both the '08 and the '09 version of Cabrera put up a .705 OPS? Did his defense get worse or something?

In 2008, Cabrera posted a .705 OPS but made up for it with a +14.0 UZR in the field, making him worth +3.5 wins. As you pointed out, Cabrera posted the same exact OPS in 2009 as he did in 2008, however, his defense took a major step backwards as he posted a -15.3 UZR, giving him just a +0.6 WAR. FWIW, Janish was worth 1.1 wins in 2009 thanks to his +11.7 UZR in 592.1 innings at shortstop.

If Cabrera can rebound defensively in 2010 while maintaining an OPS around .700, he'll be a solid signing. If he repeats his 2009 season then he'll be a downgrade. Expecting him to rebound to being a +12 to +15 defender again is unrealistic, but if he can get back in the +5 range he would be a nice addition.

01-30-2010, 11:46 PM	#16
Captain Hook Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: columbus,ohio Posts: 2,022	Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year I was actually looking forward to seeing Yanish every day at SS.I guess 10 years of losing can do that to ya. I would agree that this is an upgrade and should help some.

01-30-2010, 11:48 PM	#17
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,915	Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year With Cabrera's glove and bat both on the decline, I'm not terribly excited. But it's certainly better than Alex Gonzalez or JHJ. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

01-30-2010, 11:50 PM	#18
BearcatShane Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cincinnati/Colerain Posts: 1,247	Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year So.... Stubbs CF Cabrera SS Votto 1B Phillips 2B Rolen 3B Bruce RF Gomes LF (Hopefully) Hernandez/Hanigan C Pitcher It could be worse. __________________ Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/ShaneHorning

01-30-2010, 11:52 PM	#20
Captain Hook Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: columbus,ohio Posts: 2,022	Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year It has been fairly undisputed that the Reds were weak at SS.I give them some credit for signing one the better if not best SS free agents this year.

01-30-2010, 11:57 PM	#21
dougdirt The Boss Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 30,711	Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year If his defense is more career than 2009, I am ok with this. If his defense is very poor once again, then this is a terrible signing. __________________ www.redsminorleagues.com

01-31-2010, 12:02 AM	#22
paulrichjr Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Savannah, TN Posts: 2,773	Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year And the one who loses the 40th spot is????????? Sutton? Taveras? __________________ Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

01-31-2010, 12:04 AM	#26
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,915	Re: Reds sign Orlando Cabrera to one-year, $3M deal; option for second year FWIW, here's what PECOTA sees for Cabrera: Code: Percentile AVG OBP SLG 90o 0.295 0.355 0.430 75o 0.283 0.341 0.404 60o 0.274 0.331 0.385 50o 0.265 0.322 0.366 40o 0.259 0.314 0.351 25o 0.247 0.300 0.326 10o 0.220 0.269 0.269 Weighted Mean 0.268 0.325 0.372 And Paul Janish: Code: Percentile AVG OBP SLG 90o 0.260 0.334 0.406 75o 0.240 0.313 0.370 60o 0.230 0.303 0.352 50o 0.224 0.297 0.343 40o 0.220 0.292 0.334 25o 0.202 0.273 0.303 10o 0.190 0.259 0.280 Weighted Mean 0.223 0.296 0.341 I think Jansih is clearly the superior defender, but Cabrera is still likely an upgrade -- and the price is right. I'd have liked to see Janish get the opportunity personally, given that his BABIP have been ridiculously though, but I'm hardly going to complain about adding legitimate talent. For me, the most interesting thing is who they take off the 40 man. I'd have to think it's Sutton. And if Gomes gets signed, then it will be an OF. We can only hope it's Taveras. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. Last edited by RedsManRick; 01-31-2010 at 12:13 AM.

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