More positive reaction on Chapman

[MikeS21]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

This is also an argument for using him in the bullpen at the major league level to start with... I'd love to see the Reds handle him the way the Rays handled David Price.

While I see some wisdom in this, I also see problems with bullpen duty, such as how often he pitches, number of times he warms up, etc. There is a mental difference between starting and relieving, it would seem Chapman would need the routine of preparing for starting.

klw mentioned this a few posts ago, and I agree:

One thing to consider is that it is easier to limit Chapman's innings in the minors. Pulling him early in a game in AA is easier to hide than in front of 35k in Cincinnati. The Reds should start him in the minors to handle him similar to what the Red sox did a couple of seasons back with Buchholz. (could have been Lester) Started him on the farm for short outings, brought him up midseason, this allowed him to have full outings in the MLB without worrying about building his innings too quickly.

Why not let him go to AA or AAA and put him on a strict innings/pitch count? I say 5 innings or 70 pitches, whichever comes first. At least he gets a regular routine established of regular starts, warming-up, throwing session between starts, etc.

[RedsManRick]

Mike, I guess it comes down the value of those things you mention versus the value of facing major league caliber hitters, adjusting to major league life, and the production he might bring to the Reds in the heat of a playoff race (we hope...).

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

This is also an argument for using him in the bullpen at the major league level to start with... I'd love to see the Reds handle him the way the Rays handled David Price.

Liriano used to be the gold standard on how to handle a young pitcher. One TJ surgery and meltdown later, and it is back to the drawing board.

It's becoming apparent that pitching health, at this time, is a crapshoot.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by TheNext44

I've said this before and will keep saying it.

The only factor in the decision where to play Chapman is what is best for his development long term. Contract, roster space, team record, ticket sales all should be irrelevant to that one key question.

Contract is always relevant for the Reds. Period. Not complaining, just how it is.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Liriano used to be the gold standard on how to handle a young pitcher. One TJ surgery and meltdown later, and it is back to the drawing board.

It's becoming apparent that pitching health, at this time, is a crapshoot.

Liriano also has/had terrible mechanics too.

[REDblooded]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

While I see some wisdom in this, I also see problems with bullpen duty, such as how often he pitches, number of times he warms up, etc. There is a mental difference between starting and relieving, it would seem Chapman would need the routine of preparing for starting.

klw mentioned this a few posts ago, and I agree:

Why not let him go to AA or AAA and put him on a strict innings/pitch count? I say 5 innings or 70 pitches, whichever comes first. At least he gets a regular routine established of regular starts, warming-up, throwing session between starts, etc.

Definitely agree with the wisdom in this... Wasn't there an article mentioning the fact that the Cuban pitching schedule is a bit different than that in MLB? I thought I may have read that they get the start every 6 games instead of 5...

[OnBaseMachine]

Paul Daugherty article on Chapman:

As for Chapman himself, his coaches rave about his sweat ethic. They're impressed with how polished he seems as a pitcher. He's in a baseball cocoon, as close to a perfect learning environment as any player will see. Baseball is all Chapman has. Fossas also suspects that, to some extent, desperation is a great motivator. Chapman might have a lot of money. But he has nowhere to go.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...+to+Chap-mania

[redsmetz]

From Minorleagueball.com comes this bit in a piece on Chapman and Strasburg:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/...urg-what-is-to

So what should the Reds do with Chapman? If he continues to pitch like this, pressure to bring him north will increase. I can understand that. I don't know and can't predict what will happen roster-wise, but I can tell you what I would do if I were in Cincy's shoes. If he keeps blowing people away this spring, I would be publically non-committal about bringing him north until the last minute, then assign him to Double-A Carolina to begin the season. I would keep him there for a minimum of 10 starts, focusing on getting him acclimated to the United States, the language, and professional baseball. Even if he's blowing people away, the cultural transition can be a very difficult one for Cuban players. Psychologically, if he has a rough adjustment it could have a negative impact on what happens on the field. Therefore, I would be cautious until I was sure he is comfortable off-the-field as well as on.

After 10 starts, I would re-assess. If he's struggling or just mediocre, leave him there. If he's dominating the league, I'd move him up to Triple-A Louisville. At Louisville I'd re-assess after five starts. If he's shutting down Triple-A, then I'd promote him to the majors at that point. If he's struggling or mediocre, I'd leave him there until September. So, if I were in charge of Cincinnati's player development, Chapman would get a minimum of 15 starts in Double-A and Triple-A before being pushed into major league action.

[MikeS21]

Another issue I wonder about is that Chapman learn to pace himself. When you are coming into the game in relief, the temptation is to let fly 100 mph fastballs for an inning. Whereas, with starting, he may need to learn to pace himself with 96-97 mph fastballs, knowing that he needs to save some gas for later in the game.

I, too, would like to see the Reds give Chapman 15-20 starts minimum at AA and AAA. I do not think the Reds will compete in 2010, even with Chapman in the rotation. I simply don't think the offense is there. So I would keep him in a low pressure environment, where the organization has a support system already in place for young, Latin American players who are getting their first taste of American life. Keep Chapman away from the media circus that's sure to follow him around when he hits the majors.

But, that's just my opinion. That, and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

Another issue I wonder about is that Chapman learn to pace himself. When you are coming into the game in relief, the temptation is to let fly 100 mph fastballs for an inning. Whereas, with starting, he may need to learn to pace himself with 96-97 mph fastballs, knowing that he needs to save some gas for later in the game.

I, too, would like to see the Reds give Chapman 15-20 starts minimum at AA and AAA. I do not think the Reds will compete in 2010, even with Chapman in the rotation. I simply don't think the offense is there. So I would keep him in a low pressure environment, where the organization has a support system already in place for young, Latin American players who are getting their first taste of American life. Keep Chapman away from the media circus that's sure to follow him around when he hits the majors.

But, that's just my opinion. That, and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee.

Agree with most of this, but I though Coffee cost more than that these days.

Chapman to AAA while he continues to adjust, learns to start on 4 days rest and get into the routine, manage his inngs while the Reds take the time to get a look at Maloney or somebody else. Meanwhile, it helps avoid the issue with the contract. Too many big picture reasons suggest AAA to make it worth 10 or so starts in April and May.

The kid is still just 21 and while he may be more grown up than a middle class kid from the US, a little growing up outside the spotlight won't hurt him.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Liriano also has/had terrible mechanics too.

It seems like that is the rub...if the guy breaks down, look at the usage. If we can't blame the usage, let's blame the mechanics.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

It seems like that is the rub...if the guy breaks down, look at the usage. If we can't blame the usage, let's blame the mechanics.

Or, he literally had poor mechanics. Look at the hyper abduction he gets when he threw pre injury (when he "loads" his pitching elbow gets higher than his shoulder, a lot.... that isn't good). He no longer does this as the Twins have changed his mechanics post injury.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Jason Grey of ESPN:

Not joking: a veteran scout told me today he actually considered using the phrase "Cooperstown-worthy" on his Chapman report

http://twitter.com/Jason_Grey

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

From Jason Grey of ESPN:

Not joking: a veteran scout told me today he actually considered using the phrase "Cooperstown-worthy" on his Chapman report

http://twitter.com/Jason_Grey

Wow. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but it seems the hype machine is starting to get a little bit of out control...

[membengal]

Frankly, it beats the hades out of a series of reports that the Reds spent $30 million dollars on the second coming of Jimmy Anderson...