Zach Stewart's progress

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I think we do. Rolen demanded a trade to a team in the Midwest. The Blue Jays said ok, we will trade you to a team in the Midwest. Three of the four teams in the Midwest had no need at all for Rolen. The team that did gave up their only true starting pitching prospect at the time, along with two other players, to acquire him.

I wasn't aware there were only four teams in the Midwest.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I wasn't aware there were only four teams in the Midwest.

I guess I should have been a little clearer, he wanted a trade close to Indiana. I guess Detroit also could have been tossed in that area as well.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I wasn't aware there were only four teams in the Midwest.

Rolen is from Jasper, IN. Even the Chicago teams are farther away than he'd like I'd expect. St. Louis and Cincy are by far the closest and since his bridges were burnt in St. Louis, I'd say Cincy is where he wants to be. The Reds had leverage and gave it away to get the $4 Million covered in 2009. They could have simply waited until after the season and the $4 Million would not have been a factor.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I guess I should have been a little clearer, he wanted a trade close to Indiana. I guess Detroit also could have been tossed in that area as well.

Originally Posted by mth123

Stewart is from Jasper, IN. Even the Chicago teams are farther away than he'd like I'd expect. St. Louis and Cincy are by far the closest and since his bridges were burnt in St. Louis, I'd say Cincy is where he wants to be. The Reds had leverage and gave it away to get the $4 Million covered in 2009. They could have simply waited until after the season and the $4 Million would not have been a factor.

And this is the exact kind of conjecture I'm talking about. Rolen wanted to play closer to home, I can accept that. But for you or anyone else to think that meant he would only go to the Reds is complete and total conjecture.

Who is to say that the Jays couldn't trade him to Milwaukee, or Detroit, or Minnesota? Who is to say what those teams (or several others) were willing to give up? You don't know and neither do I. It's that simple.

[dougdirt]

Well I assume Milwaukee didn't want him given what they had at 3B. Detroit could have been an option. Still, if we think back, Walt basically said that he sold Stewart for the money involved.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Benihana

And this is the exact kind of conjecture I'm talking about. Rolen wanted to play closer to home, I can accept that. But for you or anyone else to think that meant he would only go to the Reds is complete and total conjecture.

Who is to say that the Jays couldn't trade him to Milwaukee, or Detroit, or Minnesota? Who is to say what those teams (or several others) were willing to give up? You don't know and neither do I. It's that simple.

Minnesota is farther from Jasper than Toronto. Milwaukee or Chicago maybe, but its about 5 or 6 hours. Detroit is probably 7 or 8. Cincy is less than 3, St. Louis about the same, maybe a little less.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by mth123

Minnesota is farther from Jasper than Toronto. Milwaukee or Chicago maybe, but its about 5 or 6 hours. Detroit is probably 7 or 8. Cincy is less than 3, St. Louis about the same, maybe a little less.

Point remains. You have no idea who Toronto was thinking about trading him to. Therefore, you cannot say that the Reds outbid themselves. Assuming that the Reds were his only possible destination just because they are the 2nd closest city to his hometown is preposterous.

[lollipopcurve]

Point remains. You have no idea who Toronto was thinking about trading him to. Therefore, you cannot say that the Reds outbid themselves. Assuming that the Reds were his only possible destination just because they are the 2nd closest city to his hometown is preposterous.

Agree completely. It's just rationalizing one's opinion.

[GIDP]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Point remains. You have no idea who Toronto was thinking about trading him to. Therefore, you cannot say that the Reds outbid themselves. Assuming that the Reds were his only possible destination just because they are the 2nd closest city to his hometown is preposterous.

He had a no trade clause and wanted to be traded near his home.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Benihana

Point remains. You have no idea who Toronto was thinking about trading him to. Therefore, you cannot say that the Reds outbid themselves. Assuming that the Reds were his only possible destination just because they are the 2nd closest city to his hometown is preposterous.

He asked for a trade from Toronto to be closer to his family. Cincy and St. Louis are really the only places that qualify. All the others would require a flight to Louisville and a drive and really would take no less time than if he did that from Toronto. I think assuming the other spots would fill the request is a little preposterous.

[Brutus]

The Blue Jays said they would try to accommodate his request. They did not have to. There were other teams he presumably would have accepted a trade to. And we don't know whether the Blue Jays would have accepted less. Therefore, everything about what Cincinnati gave up as to whether it was more than necessary is simply conjecture.

[jojo]

Given the latest narrative, it's a really tough sell to argue Walt gave up too much for Rolen. EE and Roenicke? Hardly overpaying. That's closer to genius.

This rehashing really should now be about whether Walt should have asked for more money than he got for Stewart.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by jojo

Given the latest narrative, it's a really tough sell to argue Walt gave up too much for Rolen. EE and Roenicke? Hardly overpaying. That's closer to genius.

This rehashing really should now be about whether Walt should have asked for more money than he got for Stewart.

Or waited until the off-season and skipped the whole matter of Money for Stewart.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by mth123

Or waited until the off-season and skipped the whole matter of Money for Stewart.

And be outbid by the White Sox. Sure, why not?

Not to mention, good luck trying to unload Encarnacion's salary on someone to make room for Rolen.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by mth123

Or waited until the off-season and skipped the whole matter of Money for Stewart.

If the Reds waited until the off season, the ultimate price they paid for Rolen might have been higher. Other teams could have easily became competitors for Rolen's services as they emerged from their taking stock fall meetings.

Just assuming Cincy was the only possible destination is begging a question that shouldn't be begged.

Did the Reds have some leverage? I think intuitively, the answer is probably they had a bit easier road to working out a trade. That isn't close to the same thing as saying the Reds bid against themselves.