Greinke's 0-19 pace... - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

nate · 05-03-2010, 06:18 PM

...highlights folly of keeping win/loss stats

According to this article. Excerpt:

Quote:

After six starts, Greinke is 0-3. He's on pace to finish with 214 strikeouts, an 0.98 WHIP, an ERA of 2.27 ... and a record of 0-19.

Discuss!

Joseph · 05-03-2010, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate

...highlights folly of keeping win/loss stats

According to this article. Excerpt:

Discuss!

I don't think its folly to keep those stats, but I do think its folly to judge a pitcher solely on those stats.

However it is astounding to see those number projections.

TheNext44 · 05-03-2010, 06:46 PM

Offer the Royals Micah Owings for him. He's on pace to be 13-0.

KronoRed · 05-03-2010, 06:50 PM

He should be throwing shut outs.

Slacker who doesn't know how to win.

nate · 05-03-2010, 07:00 PM

Let me quibble with the article I posted. This bit in particular:

Quote:

Baseball is 50 percent hitting and 50 percent defense, with pitching taking up a large portion of defense's share. I don't know how much. Even if it's 49.9 percent, it should tell you that no one person deserves a "W" or an "L" hung on their record. Maybe a manager. Again, beside the point.

See, I don't agree with "pitching taking up a large portion of defense's share." Once pitches are put in play, they're the defense's responsibility. I don't think, on average, a starting pitcher is responsible for getting the majority of hitters he faces out. I would say that the majority of outs are the responsibility of the defense. True, great pitchers probably strike out around half of the batters they face but even then, does that mean they're responsible for the majority of run prevention?

edabbs44 · 05-03-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate

Let me quibble with the article I posted. This bit in particular:

See, I don't agree with "pitching taking up a large portion of defense's share." Once pitches are put in play, they're the defense's responsibility. I don't think, on average, a starting pitcher is responsible for getting the majority of hitters he faces out. I would say that the majority of outs are the responsibility of the defense. True, great pitchers probably strike out around half of the batters they face but even then, does that mean they're responsible for the majority of run prevention?

Bad pitchers let up more hits than good pitchers. And it has less to do with defense than it does with them not being very good.

I think that is his point.

Unassisted · 05-03-2010, 10:45 PM

Maybe KC will trade him for prospects to NYY/PHI/LAD/LAA/BOS after the ASB?

Ravenlord · 05-04-2010, 01:24 AM

Greinke, and not Verlander, should have won the Cy Young award. i was very vocal about that, but can't remember if i was doing that here or not.

Code:

Pitcher	W-L	ERA	IP	H	HR	BB	K	WHIP	SLG	OBA	AVG	
Greinke	16-8	2.16	229.1	195	11	51	242	1.07	336	276	230
Verlander 19-9	3.45	240	219	20	63	269	1.18	369	295	243

but one of these two play in a market that has 916,952 people (in proper), and the other plays in a market that has 450,375 people (in proper).

blumj · 05-04-2010, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

Greinke, and not Verlander, should have won the Cy Young award. i was very vocal about that, but can't remember if i was doing that here or not.

Code:

Pitcher	W-L	ERA	IP	H	HR	BB	K	WHIP	SLG	OBA	AVG	
Greinke	16-8	2.16	229.1	195	11	51	242	1.07	336	276	230
Verlander 19-9	3.45	240	219	20	63	269	1.18	369	295	243

but one of these two play in a market that has 916,952 people (in proper), and the other plays in a market that has 450,375 people (in proper).

I honestly don't remember much of a campaign for Verlander, there wasn't even that much of one for Felix. To be fair, almost everyone, including the voters, got it right for once.

Sea Ray · 05-04-2010, 10:57 AM

Goes to show how bad the Royals are.

RedEye · 05-04-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

Greinke, and not Verlander, should have won the Cy Young award. i was very vocal about that, but can't remember if i was doing that here or not.

Code:

Pitcher	W-L	ERA	IP	H	HR	BB	K	WHIP	SLG	OBA	AVG	
Greinke	16-8	2.16	229.1	195	11	51	242	1.07	336	276	230
Verlander 19-9	3.45	240	219	20	63	269	1.18	369	295	243

but one of these two play in a market that has 916,952 people (in proper), and the other plays in a market that has 450,375 people (in proper).

But Greinke did win the AL Cy Young! Along with Lincecum's victory, I actually thought the awards went to the right two pitchers last year.

PuffyPig · 05-04-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nate

. True, great pitchers probably strike out around half of the batters they face but even then, does that mean they're responsible for the majority of run prevention?

Half?

That would mean that truly great pitchers would be getting about 2 K's per inning.

nate · 05-04-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

Half?

That would mean that truly great pitchers would be getting about 2 K's per inning.

True, so it's even fewer batters that pitchers retire on their own.

jojo · 05-05-2010, 09:37 AM

Jocketty should offer Rosales and Stewart for Greinke. Maybe Moore would bite? For sweetner, Jocketty could offer up Hamilton.

05-03-2010, 06:46 PM	#3
TheNext44 Socratic Gadfly Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,224	Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace... Offer the Royals Micah Owings for him. He's on pace to be 13-0. __________________ "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

05-03-2010, 06:50 PM	#4
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,342	Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace... He should be throwing shut outs. Slacker who doesn't know how to win. __________________ Go Gators!

05-03-2010, 10:45 PM	#7
Unassisted RZ Chamber of Commerce Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Antonio Posts: 13,221	Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace... Maybe KC will trade him for prospects to NYY/PHI/LAD/LAA/BOS after the ASB? __________________ /r/reds

05-04-2010, 01:24 AM	#8
Ravenlord Into de Halls of Valhalla Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: mostly Williamsburg....occassionaly the rest of the several state region. Posts: 8,909	Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace... Greinke, and not Verlander, should have won the Cy Young award. i was very vocal about that, but can't remember if i was doing that here or not. Code: Pitcher W-L ERA IP H HR BB K WHIP SLG OBA AVG Greinke 16-8 2.16 229.1 195 11 51 242 1.07 336 276 230 Verlander 19-9 3.45 240 219 20 63 269 1.18 369 295 243 but one of these two play in a market that has 916,952 people (in proper), and the other plays in a market that has 450,375 people (in proper). __________________ the store for all your blade, costuming (in any regard), leather (also in any regard), and steel craft needs.www.facebook.com/tdhshop yes, this really is how we make our living. Last edited by Ravenlord; 05-04-2010 at 01:30 AM.

05-04-2010, 10:57 AM	#10
Sea Ray Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 15,252	Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace... Goes to show how bad the Royals are.

05-05-2010, 09:37 AM	#14
jojo Five Tool Fool Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 16,544	Re: Greinke's 0-19 pace... Jocketty should offer Rosales and Stewart for Greinke. Maybe Moore would bite? For sweetner, Jocketty could offer up Hamilton. __________________ "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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