Can The Reds Win With Bailey and Cueto?

[membengal]

OBM, first ONE HIT shutout since Smiley in '96.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Eh. I fully expect Bailey to perform CPR on the Pirates' offense tomorrow.

As much as I hate to admit it I'd agree. I'm split on these 2 and have said before Cueto has a shot to be good, Bailey has a much less chance IMO. He looked great for a stretch last season but he is often too hittable. I think he can remain a starter but I doubt he is ever anything more than a #3 or 4 starter at best.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by membengal

OBM, first ONE HIT shutout since Smiley in '96.

That's what I meant. My bad. Thanks.

[TheNext44]

This is going to sound absurd after a 1 hitter, but not only do I still stand by my original premise that the Reds can't win with both Cueto and Bailey in the rotation, but I am even more convinced after tonight.

Cueto looked great... in the pitcher friendly stadium on a cold and rainy night against a terrible team. I counted at least a half a dozen deep fly balls that most likely would have gotten out in GABP on a normal day.

Now Cueto helped himself by not walking anyone and only giving up one hit. But that's because he knew he could pump his fastball in for strikes and not get hurt. My issue is that he can't have that approach when he pitches in GABP, and history tells us that he doesn't. He will give up homers if he does, and he has when he does. I hope I am wrong, but I see do not Cueto succeeding in the games that he pitches at home, at least not as much as he does on the road.

And just one more time for clarity, I am not saying that Cueto is the same pitcher as Bailey, just that they both are not built for GABP, and it is hurting their development. I think it is time for the Reds to trade one of them and start building a rotation with guys like Arroyo and Leake instead of Bailey and Cueto.

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Both guys are talented. Some talented guys make it, others don't. But I know I'd rather be given innings and opportunities to talented, young pitchers than mediocre vets with no upside. It's frustrating, but this is just how it goes by-and-large.

So that's the only option? Homer Bailey or Kip Wells?

My argument is that it is time for the Reds to build a starting staff that can survive GABP. There are lots of good above average starting pitchers who throw more ground balls than flyballs. The Reds rotation should have as many of those guys as possible.

The Reds are contending this year, the time to be concerned with just "giving innings" to guys is over. It's time to get players that help the team win now.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by TheNext44

This is going to sound absurd after a 1 hitter, but not only do I still stand by my original premise that the Reds can't win with both Cueto and Bailey in the rotation, but I am even more convinced after tonight.

Cueto looked great... in the pitcher friendly stadium on a cold and rainy night against a terrible team. I counted at least a half a dozen deep fly balls that most likely would have gotten out in GABP on a normal day.

Now Cueto helped himself by not walking anyone and only giving up one hit. But that's because he knew he could pump his fastball in for strikes and not get hurt. My issue is that he can't have that approach when he pitches in GABP, and history tells us that he doesn't. He will give up homers if he does, and he has when he does. I hope I am wrong, but I see do not Cueto succeeding in the games that he pitches at home, at least not as much as he does on the road.

And just one more time for clarity, I am not saying that Cueto is the same pitcher as Bailey, just that they both are not built for GABP, and it is hurting their development. I think it is time for the Reds to trade one of them and start building a rotation with guys like Arroyo and Leake instead of Bailey and Cueto.

C'mon, don't be that guy.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

C'mon, don't be that guy.

Why live in the present and be happy for Cueto? That's not as fun as being "right" IF Cueto fails later.

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by TheNext44

This is going to sound absurd after a 1 hitter, but not only do I still stand by my original premise that the Reds can't win with both Cueto and Bailey in the rotation, but I am even more convinced after tonight.

Cueto looked great... in the pitcher friendly stadium on a cold and rainy night against a terrible team. I counted at least a half a dozen deep fly balls that most likely would have gotten out in GABP on a normal day.

Alrighty then, Captain Buzzkill.

[Reds1]

Cueto was great tonight. A little bleeder the only hit. I say this team can win with these two pitchers, but in tandem with Arroyo, Harang, and a man name Leake.

[HokieRed]

Whole starting staff has been coming around very nicely for the last 15 games (even, to some degree, Bailey). I'm starting to think we've got something in Bryan Price.

[mbgrayson]

Originally Posted by HokieRed

Whole starting staff has been coming around very nicely for the last 15 games (even, to some degree, Bailey). I'm starting to think we've got something in Bryan Price.

Agreed. If the staff keeps adjusting like they have been, we might have something here.... finally.

[VR]

Originally Posted by HokieRed

Whole starting staff has been coming around very nicely for the last 15 games (even, to some degree, Bailey). I'm starting to think we've got something in Bryan Price.

I'm still pondering the Arizona Spring Training conspiracy

[Ghosts of 1990]

Originally Posted by HokieRed

Whole starting staff has been coming around very nicely for the last 15 games (even, to some degree, Bailey). I'm starting to think we've got something in Bryan Price.

Show me 15 or 30 more of about the same stretch and I'd fully agree.

I saw this staff put together plenty of runs like this under a man named Richard M. Pole

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by reds44

Yeah, Bailey and Cueto don't belong in the same sentence.

I just don't get this. Look at their last 3 outings from the thread Brutus posted. Johnny had one great outing in there while Homer had one bad outing in there. Otherwise, they were nearly identical. A handful of poor outing in the beginning of the season from a young kid is NOT enough to earn the kind of lambasting he's gotten in this thread. Everyone is so quick to dismiss Homer's second half last year due to a couple poor outings. Fickle crowd.

(this wasn't at you specifically reds44...just in general about the quick triggers around here)

[nate]

Originally Posted by TheNext44

y argument is that it is time for the Reds to build a starting staff that can survive GABP. There are lots of good above average starting pitchers who throw more ground balls than flyballs. The Reds rotation should have as many of those guys as possible.

The Reds are contending this year, the time to be concerned with just "giving innings" to guys is over. It's time to get players that help the team win now.

High five!