6-18-10 Reds vs Mariners (Cueto vs Lee)

[NeilHamburger]

Cueto has shown exactly ZERO improvement in 3 years.

When looking at MLB players I tend to look at MLB service time over age. If after 3 years he's shown no improvement, and maybe even regressed, I really don't think he'll ever be more then a 4.5 .500 pitcher.

[RedsFanInBama]

Jiminez is in year 4. We can always hope.

[NeilHamburger]

By the way, I'm not saying a .500 pitcher with a mid 4 era isn't useful. It's not what many hoped for with Cueto. But, it is what it is.

[bshall2105]

Did anyone else vote yes for the vuvuzelas?

[Kiss the Baby00]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

Cueto has shown exactly ZERO improvement in 3 years.

When looking at MLB players I tend to look at MLB service time over age. If after 3 years he's shown no improvement, and maybe even regressed, I really don't think he'll ever be more then a 4.5 .500 pitcher.

did you miss the part where he allowed 1 ER?

[bshall2105]

Originally Posted by Kiss the Baby00

did you miss the part where he allowed 1 ER?

Yeah he looks great against the Pirates and the Mariners, but against even average lineups Cueto seems to implode. He'll also put together a dominating run like he had in May, and in other games look clueless. Jonny needs to show more consistency, and I think that's what all of us are expecting out of him, because he is certainly capable.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by GIDP

If Stubbs is in Center the Mariners dont score.

If Cairo doesnt DH we wouldnt have 3 sub .300 OBP guys in a row in our order.

Basically we played with a line up that equaled 6 innings worth of ABs.

Yep.

Yep.

Yep.

[Maker_84]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

Bottom line is this offense is just flat out terrible against good pitching and just destroys bad or okay pitching.

It's one thing to struggle against good pitching. But this offense is flat out dominated by anyone who throws well. And I mean dominated to a degree that is bordline absurd. It's the mark of an overrated team, one that will suck as soon as they face a higher level of competition.

I've been bashed for saying stuff like this in the past but it looks like i was right unfortunately. The Reds are really just an average team that got ahead by playing in a very weak division and a bunch of scrubs

[NeilHamburger]

Originally Posted by Kiss the Baby00

did you miss the part where he allowed 1 ER?

And he couldn't throw 6 innings. Even when he has good stuff against poor teams in a pitchers park he can't put it all together. And next game he's just as likely to give up 5 in 5 innings as he is to throw 6 or 7 good innings.

[RedsFanInBama]

Originally Posted by Kiss the Baby00

did you miss the part where he allowed 1 ER?

Which is fine, but how does a guy do that and not even last six innings? He's just so inefficient on the mound. With his stuff, he should be one of the best pitchers in the game. But he wastes so many pitches and he gets himself into so much trouble by walking people. BTW, I'm talking about him in general, not specifically last night.

[Kiss the Baby00]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

And he couldn't throw 6 innings. Even when he has good stuff against poor teams in a pitchers park he can't put it all together. And next game he's just as likely to give up 5 in 5 innings as he is to throw 6 or 7 good innings.

man pitchers sure do suck when they dont throw CG SOs every start.

Cueto has given up 5 ER twice this year and 8 ER once. He has 8 starts where he gave up 3 ER or less.

Other pitchers off the top of my head who have 3 starts this season w 5+ ER:

Halladay: 6,6,5
Lackey: 8,5,6 ( makes 18mill)
Burnett: 6,6,6,8 ( makes 16 mill)
Felix Hernandez: 7,7,5
Garza: 5,6,7
Sabathia: 5,5,6,6


This is jsut a short list. Many other pitchers have 2 starts where they have given up 5+ ER. I think you need to get a reality check. Not every pitcher is gonna throw a perfect game everytime out. Cueto is 24, throws 96 MPH and makes 440k. He is one of our more stable guys in the rotation, I think you need to focus your pitching hate on someone else because it seems you are just complaining for the sake of seeing your own words in print.

[Kiss the Baby00]

Originally Posted by RedsFanInBama

Which is fine, but how does a guy do that and not even last six innings? He's just so inefficient on the mound. With his stuff, he should be one of the best pitchers in the game. But he wastes so many pitches and he gets himself into so much trouble by walking people. BTW, I'm talking about him in general, not specifically last night.

Here are the Reds starters and their average pitches per inning:
Leake…………..15.4
Arroyo…………15.7
Cueto….……….16.8
Bailey…………..17.7
Harang……….. 18.0


so cueto is throwing one pitch more per inning than our best guy.

over the course of a game, Cueto is 5-6 pitches less effective than our best guy. definitely seems like something you should complain about:thumbdown

[RedsFanInBama]

Originally Posted by Kiss the Baby00

Here are the Reds starters and their average pitches per inning:
Leake…………..15.4
Arroyo…………15.7
Cueto….……….16.8
Bailey…………..17.7
Harang……….. 18.0


so cueto is throwing one pitch more per inning than our best guy.

over the course of a game, Cueto is 5-6 pitches less effective than our best guy. definitely seems like something you should complain about:thumbdown

The most recent stat I saw had him at 17.1. Regardless, he makes things harder on himself than he should. Maybe I'm judging him against too harsh a standard, but his stuff is filthy. I don't judge him against "our best guy." To me, that's a piss poor standard.

[Reds]

Was it Maddux that said that he always tried to keep it to 12 pitches an inning, his thought being that he wanted to go the distance. That's hard to do on the mound, I was amazed he actually gunned for a specific number of pitches an inning.

[Kiss the Baby00]

Originally Posted by RedsFanInBama

The most recent stat I saw had him at 17.1. Regardless, he makes things harder on himself than he should. Maybe I'm judging him against too harsh a standard, but his stuff is filthy. I don't judge him against "our best guy." To me, that's a piss poor standard.

so now 5-1 w 3.02 era is piss poor ?????

jsut admit that you wont be happy until all 5 of our starters throw CG SOs every single start and no batters ever get out, ever. Do you beat your kids when they bring home B's?