Cliff Lee

[fearofpopvol1]

Prospect Insider said the Yanks are in heavy on Lee. http://prospectinsider.com/view/fres...iff-lee-front/

Buster Olney tweeted that the Mets are in and a package centered around Mets young shortstop Ruben Tejada is not enough to land Lee, but one based on Wilmer Flores is more like it.

[jojo]

My guess is that if there really is several teams in on a deal, it's mostly because the Ms are trying to get a player package that no single team is able/willing to provide and some prospects might need to be bought by salary relief and another team is willing to take on said salary to address a need etc...

In other words, its money and prospects mixing to make a complicated calculus but I really doubt that if the Reds are hot for Lee it would be the roughly $4M left on his contract that would be the hold up for Jocketty (i.e. I doubt the Reds need to move $4M in order to take on $4M)...

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

Prospect Insider said the Yanks are in heavy on Lee. http://prospectinsider.com/view/fres...iff-lee-front/

Buster Olney tweeted that the Mets are in and a package centered around Mets young shortstop Ruben Tejada is not enough to land Lee, but one based on Wilmer Flores is more like it.

So far, Alonso is by far the best prospect mentioned in Lee rumors. But I'm sure there's a lot of names being tossed that aren't hitting the rumor mill.

[Homer Bailey]

Burke, GMJ, Jon Adkins, and if they beg, Daryl Harang.

[nate]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

Burke, GMJ, Jon Adkins, and if they beg, Daryl Harang.

Solid!

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

This team probably a .500 team. Unless they remove a bad starter and replace him with a great one. And get another offensive player.

IMO.. this is the best argument for not getting Lee this year.
I see this team as slightly above 500 (which is great progress).
If they make the playoffs, they will struggle to make it past the first round, even if you added Cliff Lee and subtracted nothing.

I'm all for trading whatever prospects it takes to win the world series, but I think right now, you trade Alonso for a player that will help you for 3 years or so, not a 1/2 year rental.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

IMO.. this is the best argument for not getting Lee this year.
I see this team as slightly above 500 (which is great progress).
If they make the playoffs, they will struggle to make it past the first round, even if you added Cliff Lee and subtracted nothing.

I'm all for trading whatever prospects it takes to win the world series, but I think right now, you trade Alonso for a player that will help you for 3 years or so, not a 1/2 year rental.

Here is the thing. Last year Cliff Lee made 5 starts in the playoffs. He was 4-0, 2 CG, 7 ER. Note that the Phillies won all 5 of Lee's starts.

If the Reds were to make the playoffs and have Lee on the staff they would have a chance in every series they played in. Remember anytime you get to the dance you have a chance.

[dsmith421]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

If they make the playoffs, they will struggle to make it past the first round, even if you added Cliff Lee and subtracted nothing.

I'm 30 years old and the last time the Reds played in a (real) playoff game I was 15. There's an entire generation of kids in the Tri-State area who literally cannot remember the Reds ever being relevant.

Roll the dice.

[dunner13]

Originally Posted by dsmith421

I'm 30 years old and the last time the Reds played in a (real) playoff game I was 15. There's an entire generation of kids in the Tri-State area who literally cannot remember the Reds ever being relevant.

Roll the dice.

Im 25 and I agree. Sell the farm for lee. Alonso may never make it to the majors and hes certainly not taking vottos spot. For the handful of Bartolo Colon trades where a team gave up future all stars there are hundreds of trades were the prospects never amounted to anything.

[nate]

If a team only tried to get the pieces they needed to make the postseason if there was 100% chance of winning the World Series, they'd never get to the postseason.

The time to go for it is now.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Originally Posted by nate

If a team only tried to get the pieces they needed to make the postseason if there was 100% chance of winning the World Series, they'd never get to the postseason.

The time to go for it is now.

Yeah you're so right.

As I've said before, the game chooses YOU, your organization in terms of what year you will contend. You cannot pick a year to contend. We've been choosen. Some things have went our way. We don't have time to bleed. We are at a critical juncture and there's no guaruntee we'll have this health and this mixture next year or in two years.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Here is the thing. Last year Cliff Lee made 5 starts in the playoffs. He was 4-0, 2 CG, 7 ER. Note that the Phillies won all 5 of Lee's starts.

If the Reds were to make the playoffs and have Lee on the staff they would have a chance in every series they played in. Remember anytime you get to the dance you have a chance.

I agree. If you could add any starting pitcher in baseball to a playoff roster, I would pick Lee. In fact, I thought the Phillies were stupid to trade him last year, considering the relatively little they got back. I thought the Phils should've added Halladay and kept Lee too and just let him walk. If the Yanks end up getting Lee, they are really going to regret that trade.

I think the Reds still have holes in the bullpen and the starting 8 is a fragile bet to continue to perform as it did during the hot streak. My main concern is the pen. It will let them down in the playoffs.
If we get Lee, we better be prepared to add 1-2 quality relievers, or it will all be for naught.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by nate

If a team only tried to get the pieces they needed to make the postseason if there was 100% chance of winning the World Series, they'd never get to the postseason.

The time to go for it is now.

And I agree with all that.

But I'm not convinced that this year is "chosing" the Reds.

I wouldn't be upset if we traded Alonso and 2 other prospects to rent Lee.
I just think, even with that trade, the Reds might not even make the playoffs.
I'd rather Alonso be traded for a long term answer at SS or LF, as I think next year the Reds will probably have an even better chance of contending..

But I'm certianly not going to cry or complain if the Reds get Lee.
I'm not a prospect horder, I just see this team as closer to a 500 team than a contender.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

And I agree with all that.

But I'm not convinced that this year is "chosing" the Reds.

I wouldn't be upset if we traded Alonso and 2 other prospects to rent Lee.
I just think, even with that trade, the Reds might not even make the playoffs.
I'd rather Alonso be traded for a long term answer at SS or LF, as I think next year the Reds will probably have an even better chance of contending..

But I'm certianly not going to cry or complain if the Reds get Lee.
I'm not a prospect horder, I just see this team as closer to a 500 team than a contender.

Im not sure I agree with you on this. I think right now this team is better than a .500 team. I don't know how much, but I don't see a long swoon. If a swoon would have happened I think we would have seen that over the past 2-3 weeks.

I think if you put Lee on the staff you have arguably the best pitcher in baseball taking the mound every 5th day. That gives you a huge boost, I think its a boost that puts the Reds ahead of the Cards in terms of favorites to win the Central.

I also think we have gone a little crazy on the hording of the prospects issue. If the Reds trade an Alonso, Wood, and Heisey to the M's it would be a big time package. But you also have to realize that the Reds would not only be getting Lee's services in the 2010 season but most probably another 1st round pick in the 2011 draft. And I don't think you can make the argument that Alonso has set the world on fire.

[The Operator]

I'm on board with going all in for Lee, or another high caliber pitcher.

I've been hearing since the early part of this decade why The Reds shouldn't make trade X or trade Y because the real year The Reds are going to contend is 20XX and we want all hands on deck for that year.

Problem is, year 20XX keeps getting pushed further and further into the future while promising seasons have come and gone where The Reds stood pat and let a fatal flaw (2006 is the best example) kill their chances.

I'm 23. I can barely remember anything about 1995. I certainly can't remember 1990, other than what I've watched on my highlight videos. I'm ready to watch a Reds team win some meaningful games.