|
|
|||||||
| View Poll Results: Who is the better talent Cueto or Greinke? | |||
| Greinke |
   
|
33 | 67.35% |
| Cueto |
  
|
16 | 32.65% |
| Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll | |||
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
07-27-2010, 02:02 PM
|
#1 |
|
HOF CLASS OF '12
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Springfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,994
|
Cueto or Greinke?
For those who know. Just your honest opinion and if you'd care to share why you feel this way who is the better young arm? I have my own opinion but I'm having a debate with someone and would like others to shed a little light on the subject.
I should add that this is simply a talent/skill comparison, take their respective money, production etc. out of the equation.
__________________
2008 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2009 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2010 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." --Woody Hayes |
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 04:24 PM
|
#2 |
|
The Lineups stink.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: West N. Carolina
Posts: 55,342
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
Greinke, Cueto isn't bad though
__________________
Go Gators! |
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 04:33 PM
|
#3 |
|
The Boss
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 30,715
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
6 of the 14 votes so far think Cueto is better than Greinke? Really? Please explain yourselves.
__________________
www.redsminorleagues.com |
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 04:34 PM
|
#4 | |
|
The Lineups stink.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: West N. Carolina
Posts: 55,342
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
Quote:
__________________
Go Gators! |
|
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 04:34 PM
|
#5 |
|
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,659
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
Let me check the number of wins before I weigh in...
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 04:59 PM
|
#6 |
|
The Boss
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 30,715
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
9 Cueto voters and no one has commented on why so far.... are you guys just messing with me here?
__________________
www.redsminorleagues.com |
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 05:09 PM
|
#7 |
|
Do it!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rincon, PR-Winter Pk, FL
Posts: 1,820
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
Alright, alright... I was one of the Cueto voters.
But I have to admit that it was purely involuntary reflex. I am just really high on JC right now. If some kind of number is needed to back it up I guess that would be the number 3. As in Cueto is (I believe) 3 years younger. |
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 05:10 PM
|
#8 |
|
High five!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 6,767
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
I voted for Greinke. Just all around better, peripherals trending in the right direction and good to begin with.
I'd honestly like to have both.
__________________
"Bring on Rod Stupid!" |
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 05:14 PM
|
#9 |
|
Et tu, Brutus?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 8,931
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
Their numbers are surprisingly somewhat comparable, but I am surprised as many have gone with Cueto thus far as they have.
Career numbers FIP Greinke (3.62) Cueto (4.52) K/9 Greinke (7.64) Cueto (7.26) BB/9 Greinke (2.22) Cueto (3.26) HR/9 Greinke (0.95) Cueto (1.19) GB/FB Greinke (0.98) Cueto (1.01) Greinke still gets him in just about every measure. I think Cueto has the kind of talent that he could be on Greinke's level soon, but right now, I'd have to conclude Greinke is the better talent.
__________________
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda |
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 05:22 PM
|
#10 |
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,052
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
I like them both very much and Greinke's overall numbers are better: most especially in K/BB. The case for Cueto would have to be projective and based on the pattern in his WHIPS: from 1.414 to 1.360 to 1.243 in his 24 year old season, one very similar to Greinke's in his 24 year old season: 1.275.
|
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 05:31 PM
|
#11 |
|
HOF CLASS OF '12
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Springfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,994
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
Doug can you rate these 2 on pure stuff, command and control on the 20/80 scale? My feeling on the subject is that it's not really that close. Cueto with above average stuff to perhaps plus in some areas Greinke with plus stuff and plus, plus in some areas. IMO if true that is a world of difference. Also don't agree Cueto can ever really get to his level of raw stuff with experience/age, to me that is just god given. Now the command/control of said pitches is something than can improve
Cueto - + fastball, + Change, Average to slightly above slider, above average command, average control. Greinke - ++ fastball - ++ Slider - ++ command, + control, average to slightly above curve, average change up What do you think?
__________________
2008 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2009 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2010 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." --Woody Hayes |
|
|
|
|
07-27-2010, 06:39 PM
|
#12 |
|
Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,917
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
I like Cueto, but I don't think this is even close. Greinke's current FIP shows where his talent is. Kansas City has and has had a poor defense behind him and their long/middle relief has been really rough. That 64% LOB% is ridiculously and unsustainably low given his HR/rate.
In some ways, you could consider Cueto a Greinke light. Similar repertoire, but quite as good as stuff nor control/command.
__________________
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. |
|
|
|
|
07-28-2010, 09:26 AM
|
#13 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West-central Ohio
Posts: 1,911
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
I waffled for a bit, but I went with Cueto. My reasoning was the age factor. One of Cueto's comps at age 23 is, oddly enough, Zack Greinke. One of Greinke's comps at age 25 is Jose Rijo.
So my logic says that if I can have 2 years of Cueto (with Greinke numbers) before he turns into Rijo...then I take it. That was my logic, flawed or not. Of course, I didn't try predicting who Greinke turns into in 2 years. 
|
|
|
|
|
07-28-2010, 09:47 AM
|
#14 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 589
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
I think if you put grienke in the NL Central (which by the way is something I hope Walt is working on) then his numbers would separate him from Cueto. JC is a very very good young pitcher and I hope within the next year or two he can develop into a grienke like talent but hes not there just yet.
|
|
|
|
|
07-28-2010, 09:52 AM
|
#15 |
|
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Shelburne Falls, MA
Posts: 9,481
|
Re: Cueto or Greinke?
It's Greinke by a safe margin.
__________________
"Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini |
|
|
|
|
| Tags |
| cueto, debate, greinke |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
Linear Mode
