After all that noise about getting swept by the Cards.....

[mlh1981]

.......we have only lost one game in the standings since the beginning of the week.

It's not how we play against the Cards that matters. What's done is done, and the majority of our contests vs. them have already happened. Certainly, if we finish a game or two out, we can look at missed opportunities against them, but right now, after examining the so called "fallout" from all that.....we aren't looking too bad.

We swept a Marlins team that isn't halfway bad, beasting against one of the best pitchers in the process, and the horrific Cubs take 2 out of 3 against the Cards. Good luck figuring THIS game out :

[zacharync]

Agreed. I am ecstatic with how this series went. I was particularly pleased with how Homer stepped up and threw 6 shutout innings, despite his pitch count.

I am anxiously anticipating the roster moves that are about to occur over the next couple of weeks.

[redsfan_12]

Welp, cant rebound any better than we did

[Vottomatic]

Cardinals 1 game back.

And they thought they'd never see us again when they left on Wednesday.

[HARP3R]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Cardinals 1 game back.

And they thought they'd never see us again when they left on Wednesday.

THAT'S simply not true.

All the fans here in St.Louis know the Reds are here to stay. Walt sure knows how to build a winning club. Good pitching and great defense. It doesn't hurt that the Reds are a strong offensive club either.

Even though there aren't many of us here in St.Louis that likes the Reds, most of us can recognize a good ball club, which the Reds clearly are.

The coming west-coast road trip will tell us all a lot about the Reds. I'm excited to see how they play and figure out what those guys are really made of.

[Señor Rojo]

Originally Posted by HARP3R

THAT'S simply not true.

All the fans here in St.Louis know the Reds are here to stay. Walt sure knows how to build a winning club. Good pitching and great defense. It doesn't hurt that the Reds are a strong offensive club either.

If you don't mind, can I pick your brain about what people in St. Louis thought of Jocketty leaving the Cardinals? What lead to him leaving and how did people react to it? I've been curious about this since the Reds hired him.

[HARP3R]

Originally Posted by Señor Rojo

If you don't mind, can I pick your brain about what people in St. Louis thought of Jocketty leaving the Cardinals? What lead to him leaving and how did people react to it? I've been curious about this since the Reds hired him.

It was pretty mixed.

There were a lot of people that were upset about Walt leaving, but only really because no one knew anything about Mozeliak, and because WJ had been here for so long. Jocketty brought in a lot of big names to St.Louis, which brought a lot of respect from the fans, but people who followed the Cards' system as well as the big club could really see Walt's fatal flaw: a depleted farm system.

The Cardinals, under Walt, ALWAYS traded away a lot of prospects to bring in the big-name trade deadline guys (i.e. McGwire, Mulder, Rolen, Edmonds, Walker, etcetera). I don't know if Walt just didn't believe a strong farm system was a must when building an organization with some fiscal flexibility, or if he just felt those pieces were necessary, but he left a farm system that was always ranked near the bottom of the league.

So as a whole, I think a lot of us here were excited to see what Mozeliak could do, but we all respected Jocketty. I don't know exactly why Jocketty was fired, but I know there was a lot of divisiveness in the front office between WJ and Bill DeWitt. I guess the two just had different ideas on the future.

Sorry for the novel!

[Señor Rojo]

Originally Posted by HARP3R

It was pretty mixed.

There were a lot of people that were upset about Walt leaving, but only really because no one knew anything about Mozeliak, and because WJ had been here for so long. Jocketty brought in a lot of big names to St.Louis, which brought a lot of respect from the fans, but people who followed the Cards' system as well as the big club could really see Walt's fatal flaw: a depleted farm system.

The Cardinals, under Walt, ALWAYS traded away a lot of prospects to bring in the big-name trade deadline guys (i.e. McGwire, Mulder, Rolen, Edmonds, Walker, etcetera). I don't know if Walt just didn't believe a strong farm system was a must when building an organization with some fiscal flexibility, or if he just felt those pieces were necessary, but he left a farm system that was always ranked near the bottom of the league.

So as a whole, I think a lot of us here were excited to see what Mozeliak could do, but we all respected Jocketty. I don't know exactly why Jocketty was fired, but I know there was a lot of divisiveness in the front office between WJ and Bill DeWitt. I guess the two just had different ideas on the future.

Sorry for the novel!

Thanks, this was very informative. The trading of prospect topic rings true with Jocketty running the Reds. The Rolen and Edmonds trades resulted in the Reds losing prospects too (Chris Dickerson for Edmonds might not be considered a "prospect"). Some people on this board were not happy about that.

[Kingspoint]

7-1-1

[HARP3R]

Originally Posted by Señor Rojo

Thanks, this was very informative. The trading of prospect topic rings true with Jocketty running the Reds. The Rolen and Edmonds trades resulted in the Reds losing prospects too (Chris Dickerson for Edmonds might not be considered a "prospect"). Some people on this board were not happy about that.

Not a problem.

I actually wasn't aware that the Reds traded anyone for Edmonds or Rolen?

I'm not sure how Dickerson was viewed as a whole in Cincinnati, but from the outside, I thought he looked like a promising young player. Nothing great, but a serviceable guy. What did the Reds trade for Rolen?

And with Walt, it wasn't really trading prospects that irked me, it was the caliber of prospects the Cardinals traded for guys who didn't pan out. With Mulder, for instance, the Cards traded Dan Haren, Kiko Calero, and Daric Barton, which was obviously not a great move for the Birds in the long-run. Even at the time there was a lot of displeasure here.

The Rolen trade was a great move for Jocketty, though. He brought Scotty here for Placido Polanco, Mike Timlin, and Bud Smith.

[ezluke]

Originally Posted by HARP3R

Not a problem.

I actually wasn't aware that the Reds traded anyone for Edmonds or Rolen?

I'm not sure how Dickerson was viewed as a whole in Cincinnati, but from the outside, I thought he looked like a promising young player. Nothing great, but a serviceable guy. What did the Reds trade for Rolen?

And with Walt, it wasn't really trading prospects that irked me, it was the caliber of prospects the Cardinals traded for guys who didn't pan out. With Mulder, for instance, the Cards traded Dan Haren, Kiko Calero, and Daric Barton, which was obviously not a great move for the Birds in the long-run. Even at the time there was a lot of displeasure here.

The Rolen trade was a great move for Jocketty, though. He brought Scotty here for Placido Polanco, Mike Timlin, and Bud Smith.

The reds traded our starting 3rd basemen Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke, and sp/rp zach Stewart. EE was playing his way to a dfa, JR was middle relief prospect with mid to high 90's fastball who was good not great in his shirt stints with the Reds ...but Zach was the heartbreaker for many. He was killing it in the minors, but has really struggled in the jays system for some reason. Our resident minor league guru thought we just traded a future cy young winner. Rolens contract and bad back were big part of the reasons many hated the trade.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by Señor Rojo

Thanks, this was very informative. The trading of prospect topic rings true with Jocketty running the Reds. The Rolen and Edmonds trades resulted in the Reds losing prospects too (Chris Dickerson for Edmonds might not be considered a "prospect"). Some people on this board were not happy about that.

I was a big EE fan from the day he came up. I gave him alot of rope because at times he frustrated me, and other times impressed me. Like Jay Bruce, I found myself often saying he was still young and will improve and develop into a star.

I also got excited about Zach Stewart's first year minor league numbers.

But by the time Walt traded EE and Stewart to Toronto, I was just beginning to sour on EE and didn't mind the trade, except for being frustrated by throwing in Stewart. Stewart's good numbers haven't continued and I'm thankful we got Rolen. If Francisco can improve his defense and walk ratio (actually took a 3-2 ball yesterday for a walk), he may be the future when Rolen retires in a couple of years. And could be the answer to resting Scott more and more.

While I liked Dickerson, he could never stay healthy and really was nothing more than a 4th or 5th outfielder. So far, getting Edmonds hasn't really paid off. Although in some strange way with OCab being out and Janish filling in at SS, and Cairo starting Rolen's rest day at 3B, it worked out well that Edmonds could play 1B today. Although I'm sure other guys could have done it..........with 6 OFers, it was good that one of them could do it. And he nearly homered today. In the end, the Reds had/have 40 man roster problems as it is, and Dickerson was one of the odd men out. And they have Dorn, Sappelt, and other OFers in the minors on their way, with nowhere to play at the major league level.

I have no problem with either trade. For me, Walt's only blunders were the signings of Patterson, Tavares, and if he signed Lincoln, that stunk too. But he tends to take chances on guys with usually a low risk situation such as Gary Matthews Jr., Springer, and Isringhausen. When the bullpen was struggling earlier, I was surprised they didn't call David Weathers and see what he had left.

Just my $.02 cents.

[HARP3R]

Originally Posted by ezluke

The reds traded our starting 3rd basemen Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke, and sp/rp zach Stewart. EE was playing his way to a dfa, JR was middle relief prospect with mid to high 90's fastball who was good not great in his shirt stints with the Reds ...but Zach was the heartbreaker for many. He was killing it in the minors, but has really struggled in the jays system for some reason. Our resident minor league guru thought we just traded a future cy young winner. Rolens contract and bad back were big part of the reasons many hated the trade.

Ahh, I do remember hearing about that trade now. I knew nothing about Roenicke or Stewart, but with how Rolen had played the previous two years with all of the injuries, I was pretty curious with the trade.

Encarnacion was known here in St.Louis by many as "the Cardinal killer", as many other players (Bud Norris, for instance) are. I was very happy to see EE gone from the Central.

However, with Rolen (healthy) and back to his old form, it seems that is really a trade that has paid off for Cincy, and I wouldn't mind seeing EE back at 3B over Scott.

Anyway, my advice to any Reds' fan...Don't grow too attached to any of your prospects. Walt isn't afraid to give (a little too much at times) to get. He does know how to build some darn good ball clubs though.

[ian_madden]

[QUOTE=HARP3R;2210069]Ahh, I do remember hearing about that trade now. I knew nothing about Roenicke or Stewart, but with how Rolen had played the previous two years with all of the injuries, I was pretty curious with the trade.

Encarnacion was known here in St.Louis by many as "the Cardinal killer", as many other players (Bud Norris, for instance) are. I was very happy to see EE gone from the Central.

Thats funny. I've never heard of EE as any killer except for my dreams. that guy can snag any hit down the line, it was his throws that were HORRIBLE. Good bat, but never matured for us. I'm happy he is gone. Nice insight from a Cards fan.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by HARP3R

Ahh, I do remember hearing about that trade now. I knew nothing about Roenicke or Stewart, but with how Rolen had played the previous two years with all of the injuries, I was pretty curious with the trade.

Encarnacion was known here in St.Louis by many as "the Cardinal killer", as many other players (Bud Norris, for instance) are. I was very happy to see EE gone from the Central.

However, with Rolen (healthy) and back to his old form, it seems that is really a trade that has paid off for Cincy, and I wouldn't mind seeing EE back at 3B over Scott.

Anyway, my advice to any Reds' fan...Don't grow too attached to any of your prospects. Walt isn't afraid to give (a little too much at times) to get. He does know how to build some darn good ball clubs though.

Actually, it's about time, this off season, to start trading some of these prospects. Think about it? Where are they going to play?

1B Votto........uh, no need to keep any future first basemen.
2B Phillips.........due an increase to $11M next year and then becomes a FA in '12. I think the Reds plan was to hope Todd Frazier would be ready by then. I do not see them re-signing Brandon Phillips, and I would expect BP to go for the gusto in FA. It would not surprise me to see them ponder trading him this offseason if they have any suitors.
SS OCab/Janish..........OCab has a team option for next season only at around $3M. OCab is also considered a team leader in the clubhouse. The other players like him alot. I doubt management doesn't have him return. Zach Cozart is in the wings and has little left to prove in triple A. I see him up here in '12 with OCab retiring.
3B Rolen.............with Francisco spelling him on off days and he brings a lefthanded power bat to the mix. I do see Cairo sticking around also.
C Hanigan/Hernandez.........Hernandez has an option for $3M in '11 and then becomes a FA. I think he'll be 36 at that point. Coaching job in the future? Hanigan will be this team for years, IMHO. And the Reds have two #1 picks in the minors in Mesoraco (tearing up double A) and Grandal (about to sign). Catching should be a strength for years to come.
OF - Stubbs, Bruce, Heisey, Gomes, Nix, Edmonds, and then in the minors Dorn, Sappelt, and several other lower level studs. Not a weakness now or in the near future.
SP - Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, Leake, Wood...........5 young stud pitchers. Do they re-sign Arroyo? Maloney, Lecure, Klinker at triple A.
RP - I can't remember his name, but they have a lefthander (Donny?) in the lower levels who is lights out. And Chapman is on the way as a reliever and future starter.

Reds have plenty of room to trade prospects to fill their holes.