Week 5- Bengals vs. Buccaneers

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by WMR

It could be bad with Zimmer or it could be great. I certainly don't get the LeBeau or Coslet impression from him.

I've seen enough out of Zimmer, HEARD enough as far as what he stands for both in life and in football, and seen enough as far as how his defense plays for him, to be more than confident to give him a shot at the head gig.

What's the down side? The Bengals still suck? L O L.

I don't think the players are tuning out Zimmer AT ALL. Big leap to say that if they're tuning out Marvin they're tuning out Zimmer as well. Big big leap.

Why? The defense listens to one and not the other? The defense hasn't played particularly well for him this year. Pretty much middle of the pack if not second half of defenses in the league.

In my mind EVERYONE has underacheived. For that the responsibility should fall on the top guy, but if we just elevate the coordinator when after his unit underachieved what's the point.

As Jim Valvano used to say, "If he knew all the answers why didn't he tell me."

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Why? The defense listens to one and not the other? The defense hasn't played particularly well for him this year. Pretty much middle of the pack if not second half of defenses in the league.

In my mind EVERYONE has underacheived. For that the responsibility should fall on the top guy, but if we just elevate the coordinator when after his unit underachieved what's the point.

As Jim Valvano used to say, "If he knew all the answers why didn't he tell me."

:shrug: You could dig up Vince Lombardi himself and he'd probably turn into a loser just by being associated with this racket.

I just really like what Zimmer is about and would be cool with him getting a shot.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by WMR

:shrug: You could dig up Vince Lombardi himself and he'd probably turn into a loser just by being associated with this racket.

I just really like what Zimmer is about and would be cool with him getting a shot.

I would too actually. I just remember thinking the same thing about Marvin 7 years ago. History likes to repeat itself. Especially around here which is why I especially agree with your first comment.

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

See, I look at it differently -- a lot of teams kicked the tires on Marvin Lewis and ended up saying "no thanks."

Makes me wonder what everyone else saw that Mike didn't.

I don't disagree with any of that, but to compare the pre-Marvin Bengals with their record since he took over is pretty staggering. That's not to say a .500 record with zero playoff wins in two appearances over seven seasons is anything special to the other 31 teams, but compared to what I saw from 1992 - 2002, it's night and day. Unfortunately, I think we need to come to the reality that the Bengals under Marvin is about the team's ceiling, regardless of the coach, as long as the front office/decision makers remain the status quo. That's my opinion, anyway - not to say I'm at all happy about it.

[bucksfan2]

There was debate about Dusty and the value of a baseball manager. One topic brought up was that a good manager in any profession could be a baseball manager. It was pretty quickly debunked because of the intricate nature of the game. I however believe that the head coach of a football team's #1 priority (aside from being knowledgeable of football) is to be a good leader.

Most football coaches don't call offensive or defensive plays. There are a few, Rex Ryan comes to mind, but most rely on their coordinators to call plays. The coach is there on the sidelines to make the big decisions. For example last weeks awful play call against the Bucs was called by Brat and executed by Palmer. Marvin had ultimate veto power but he didn't call the play. It was his job to fall on the sword in order to deflect the blame.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I don't disagree with any of that, but to compare the pre-Marvin Bengals with their record since he took over is pretty staggering. That's not to say a .500 record with zero playoff wins in two appearances over seven seasons is anything special to the other 31 teams, but compared to what I saw from 1992 - 2002, it's night and day. Unfortunately, I think we need to come to the reality that the Bengals under Marvin is about the team's ceiling, regardless of the coach, as long as the front office/decision makers remain the status quo. That's my opinion, anyway - not to say I'm at all happy about it.

I think the "post-Marvin" bump has as much to do with Katie Blackburn assuming more of the day-to-day control of the franchise than anything else. Katie's a miser, just like her old man, but I get the feeling that she doesn't have the same "I know football" mentality that her father does.

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I think the "post-Marvin" bump has as much to do with Katie Blackburn assuming more of the day-to-day control of the franchise than anything else. Katie's a miser, just like her old man, but I get the feeling that she doesn't have the same "I know football" mentality that her father does.

I hope you're right, but I'm pretty confident the old man has definitely not relinquished final say on personnel (or any) matters.

[WMR]

Yeah you could tell from about 5 minutes of Bungles personnel meetings on Hard Knocks last year that Mikey is still calling all the shots.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by WMR

Yeah you could tell from about 5 minutes of Bungles personnel meetings on Hard Knocks last year that Mikey is still calling all the shots.

He's still calling quite a few shots, but you could also see the increased role that Katie is taking as well (see: her contract negotiations with Andre Smith).

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

He's still calling quite a few shots, but you could also see the increased role that Katie is taking as well (see: her contract negotiations with Andre Smith).

I don't think that type of role is anything particularly new for Katie/Troy.

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/a...s-the-ceo.html

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I think the "post-Marvin" bump has as much to do with Katie Blackburn assuming more of the day-to-day control of the franchise than anything else. Katie's a miser, just like her old man, but I get the feeling that she doesn't have the same "I know football" mentality that her father does.

Once Mike leaves his capacity as owner/manager the Bengals will be in a much better position. Mike suffers from some faulty logic of "I know football". I think a lot of this can be attributed to him being Paul's son as well as him playing football in college. I think someone looked it up and he was some 3rd string QB on his college team.

I could be wrong but I do think things will change once Katie or Todd take control. They grew up with the awful Bengals and they saw first hand with all the mistakes that her father made. They will also be one generation removed from Paul which would be a good thing. She may remember her grandpa fondly, but won't think she can do what he did.

That said I have no idea how much longer Mike will be in charge. He probably will live to be 100+ just to torment the good fans of Cincinnati.