Week 5- Bengals vs. Buccaneers

[bucksfan2]

FWIW when the Owners and NFL Union agreed on a labor contract there were two owners who were not in favor of that contract. They were Mike Brown and Ralph Wilson. Its kind of ironic now because all the owners think its a bad contract and are willing to lock out some players if some concessions aren't given.

Don't get me wrong Mike is not a good owner. But he has come a long way from where he was in the 90's. Starting with Marvin and going forward Mike will give up more power with each additional coach. I would love to see someone come in and buy the team or have him hire a GM. But this years debacle isn't on Mike, he handed out the money assembled a pretty talented football team.

[RiverRat13]

I fully expect Zim to be the new head coach. He will be the cheapest solution. The one thing I worry is that Brat's wife and Zim's wife were close before she passed. Would Zim be able to pull the trigger and demand to bring in his own offensive coordinator as a stipulation to taking the head coaching job?

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

I fully expect Zim to be the new head coach. He will be the cheapest solution. The one thing I worry is that Brat's wife and Zim's wife were close before she passed. Would Zim be able to pull the trigger and demand to bring in his own offensive coordinator as a stipulation to taking the head coaching job?

Unfortunately, if the reports I've read are true, Bratkowski is stuck here whether the head coach likes it or not. It would certainly explain why he's been here 10 years despite a less than stellar track record (and that's being nice about it).

[Todd Gack]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

I fully expect Zim to be the new head coach. He will be the cheapest solution. The one thing I worry is that Brat's wife and Zim's wife were close before she passed. Would Zim be able to pull the trigger and demand to bring in his own offensive coordinator as a stipulation to taking the head coaching job?

While I think Zimmer is a better (defensive) coach than Marvin, nothing will change as long as Mike is still in Cincinnati. Trust me, there's still time to jump off not just the Bengals bandwagon, but the NFL entirely.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Todd Gack

While I think Zimmer is a better (defensive) coach than Marvin, nothing will change as long as Mike is still in Cincinnati. Trust me, there's still time to jump off not just the Bengals bandwagon, but the NFL entirely.

I think the one thing Marvin had going for him when he was hired was credibility. No offense to Zimmer who I think is a great coach, but he would have no more credibility than Dick Lebeau or Bruce Coslet if he was hired from in house.

If Marvin goes, than really it has to be a whole new coaching hierarchy. If that's not possible, my question is if it makes sense to get rid of Marvin.

[WMR]

I would guess Zimmer has more credibility in that lockerroom at this point than Marvin.

Marvin has stale and lame duck plastered all over him. Every head coach in the NFL eventually gets tuned out (except for maybe BB).

[arod]

[QUOTE=The Operator;2287447]arod, are you Herm Edwards? He was a "play to win" guy too. :

I'm afraid Herm is an imposter. He says that, but doesn't coach or call plays that way. The number one true coach that "plays to win," in my opinion is Belichk.

There are so many coaches out there that just don't get this.

Anyway we can get Parcells for a few years?

[Caveat Emperor]

The impending labor dispute will have an interesting effect on the usual "coaching carousel" that we see every offseason.

While I fully expect a deal to be brokered without any games being missed, I think it's entirely plausible that all of the OTAs and some portion of the pre-season / training camp will get eaten by the dispute. With that, there's a chance that a replacement-hire coach could find himself with only a few weeks to work with his players, install an offense/defense, and have a team ready to play (vs. the months and months of minicamps and whatnot they currently have). Additionally, I think you'll see a lot of owners are lukewarm on the idea of shelling out big money to coaches with the possibility of them not coaching a down of football in 2011.

The one situation that would be immune to these problems? The Mike Zimmer / Marvin Lewis situation. Zimmer knows the players, knows the team, knows the organization, and could be ready to go with no OTAs or additional prep time. Further, Zimmer would be a first-time head coaching hire and wouldn't command the type of money Marvin would on a new deal or another head coach would to come in.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by WMR

I would guess Zimmer has more credibility in that lockerroom at this point than Marvin.

Marvin has stale and lame duck plastered all over him. Every head coach in the NFL eventually gets tuned out (except for maybe BB).

That may be true. But Marvin had the credibility when he came in. He was coming from outside the Brown family, had interviewed for a number of jobs, and had serious success as the DC for the best defense since the 85 Bears.

Zimmer today doesn't have the credibility Marvin did when he was hired. He'd be a well thought of career assistant, who may deserve a HC shot, but hadn't really been seriously considered by anyone until (hypothetically) Mike Brown hires him.

Obviously I'm thrilled with what the defense did last year, but to compare the success Zimmer had as Bengals defensive coordinator to the success Lewis had as Ravens DC or even Lebeau's success as Steeler's coordinator, there's no question who comes in third in that competition.

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

That may be true. But Marvin had the credibility when he came in. He was coming from outside the Brown family, had interviewed for a number of jobs, and had serious success as the DC for the best defense since the 85 Bears.

Zimmer today doesn't have the credibility Marvin did when he was hired. He'd be a well thought of career assistant, who may deserve a HC shot, but hadn't really been seriously considered by anyone until (hypothetically) Mike Brown hires him.

Obviously I'm thrilled with what the defense did last year, but to compare the success Zimmer had as Bengals defensive coordinator to the success Lewis had as Ravens DC or even Lebeau's success as Steeler's coordinator, there's no question who comes in third in that competition.

I'm not the biggest Marvin fan in the world, but that is very well said.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

That may be true. But Marvin had the credibility when he came in. He was coming from outside the Brown family, had interviewed for a number of jobs, and had serious success as the DC for the best defense since the 85 Bears.

Zimmer today doesn't have the credibility Marvin did when he was hired. He'd be a well thought of career assistant, who may deserve a HC shot, but hadn't really been seriously considered by anyone until (hypothetically) Mike Brown hires him.

Obviously I'm thrilled with what the defense did last year, but to compare the success Zimmer had as Bengals defensive coordinator to the success Lewis had as Ravens DC or even Lebeau's success as Steeler's coordinator, there's no question who comes in third in that competition.

Who cares how much credibility he has when he came in?

All that matter is how much credibility he has NOW. (Zero? Less Than?)

Yeah we see what all that 'credibility' got us. Credibility is overrated. Give me a coach who knows what the hell he is doing over a coach with 'CREDIBILITY.'

Zimmer has more than enough credibility to be the head coach of the Bungles.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I'm not the biggest Marvin fan in the world, but that is very well said.

See, I look at it differently -- a lot of teams kicked the tires on Marvin Lewis and ended up saying "no thanks."

Makes me wonder what everyone else saw that Mike didn't.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by WMR

Who cares how much credibility he has when he came in?

All that matter is how much credibility he has NOW. (Zero? Less Than?)

Yeah we see what all that 'credibility' got us. Credibility is overrated. Give me a coach who knows what the hell he is doing over a coach with 'CREDIBILITY.'

Zimmer has more than enough credibility to be the head coach of the Bungles.

Well credibility means a lot when you figure out who would replace him. I agree with you that whatever positive impact he's had in the past something's not getting through to the players and they need a new voice.

But if you fire Marvin and hire Zimmer, how is that any different than hiring LeBeau, or hiring Coslet?

If players are tuning out Marvin, they're also tuning out Zimmer at this point, so if you get rid of one, and promote the other, how is that an improvement?

With that said, I think it makes sense to switch coaches, so long as they go through a full search and bring someone in from the outside again.

Originally Posted by Caveat Emptor

See, I look at it differently -- a lot of teams kicked the tires on Marvin Lewis and ended up saying "no thanks."
Makes me wonder what everyone else saw that Mike didn't.

That's a good point, though many of the teams that passed him over have actually been looking for new coaches over and over again.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Well credibility means a lot when you figure out who would replace him. I agree with you that whatever positive impact he's had in the past something's not getting through to the players and they need a new voice.

But if you fire Marvin and hire Zimmer, how is that any different than hiring LeBeau, or hiring Coslet?

If players are tuning out Marvin, they're also tuning out Zimmer at this point, so if you get rid of one, and promote the other, how is that an improvement?

With that said, I think it makes sense to switch coaches, so long as they go through a full search and bring someone in from the outside again.



That's a good point, though many of the teams that passed him over have actually been looking for new coaches over and over again.

It could be bad with Zimmer or it could be great. I certainly don't get the LeBeau or Coslet impression from him.

I've seen enough out of Zimmer, HEARD enough as far as what he stands for both in life and in football, and seen enough as far as how his defense plays for him, to be more than confident to give him a shot at the head gig.

What's the down side? The Bengals still suck? L O L.

I don't think the players are tuning out Zimmer AT ALL. Big leap to say that if they're tuning out Marvin they're tuning out Zimmer as well. Big big leap.

[Cedric]

There is a better chance of the Pirates winning a WS than Mike Brown firing Marvin Lewis.

He has the job for life and we all know that.