I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Kingspoint · 10-15-2010, 03:34 PM

That way he and his .263/.303/.354 line and 36-year old Shortstop defense can hit the highway.

Walt has said that it's not prudent to give $4M to that kind of production when you've got a player at 1/10th the salary who plays lights-out better defense and actually hits better ready to take his place in Janish.

Janish only needs to cover Shortstop for 2011 and be a backup to Cozart who can take over in 2012, with more help on the way after that.

Cabrera is the type of player who thinks he's better than he is, so hopefully that carries him out of Cincinnati and onto another ballclub.

I'd rather have Janish' Defense and Janish' better On-Base-Percentage.

Janish' line: .260/.338/.385

Kingspoint · 10-15-2010, 03:42 PM

The likely scenario is that he signs a 1-year deal for about $2.5M.

That's too much, but Dusty will be the reason why.

I woudn't want the guy if he was free.

Janish is flat out a better player Offensively, and they are at opposite ends of the spectrum defensively.

Kingspoint · 10-15-2010, 03:46 PM

Oh.

And, with Rolen aging by the minute (anyone watch the playoffs?), the need for Janish' range at Shortstop is that much greater.

Just go away permanently, Orlando.

Jack Burton · 10-15-2010, 04:23 PM

Give Janish a shot, he's earned it.

aldotcs · 10-15-2010, 07:40 PM

It's been astounding that more people don't think of Janish as The Guy. He ably came in as backup and seamlessly became every day. If they need salary for other guys and Janish is more than capable, why work hard to keep Ocab?

KYRedLeg · 10-15-2010, 07:44 PM

Janish is, without a doubt, my second favorite Red.

No, Cabrera isn't my first.

I loved watching Janish in August, and, while I don't want to see Cabrera injured, I was disappointed when he came back in. I really want to see Janish as our shortstop in 2011.

Hustleman · 10-15-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldotcs

It's been astounding that more people don't think of Janish as The Guy. He ably came in as backup and seamlessly became every day. If they need salary for other guys and Janish is more than capable, why work hard to keep Ocab?

agreed. i'd be more than fine with janish at SS and cabrera's money spent elsewhere

JKam · 10-15-2010, 08:54 PM

I don't think Orlando is as bad as everyone makes him out to be defensively, but it is just a pleasure to watch Janish play defense. He makes just about every play and he makes it look routine.

Vottomatic · 10-15-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Burton

Give Janish a shot, he's earned it.

Agreed.

And this is a payroll area where we have someone equal or better than Cabrera to replace him at the near minimum.

Let Janish start and Cozart back him up, ease his way into the big leagues, and we even have Valaika who played SS most of his time in the minors, if those two get hurt. It's a cheap solution that we lose nothing in terms of offense by doing.

We've got guys in triple A pushing for major league jobs. We can't hold them back forever by keeping aging veterans losing their defensive range and offensive ability.

Unlike catcher where it would probably be smart to bring back Ramon for one more year to allow Mesoraco a full year in triple A. If Mez tears it up, he will get his chance at some point considering both Ramon and Hanigan spent time on the DL at one point in the last 2 seasons.

Natty Redlocks · 10-15-2010, 10:40 PM

The way I see it, it's Jocketty's job to Dusty-proof the lineup. I'm glad he signed Cabrera, now I'll be glad to see him not bring him back. I even have a farewell serenade prepared, just for him: YouTube - Old Man

Moosie52 · 10-15-2010, 11:49 PM

Joey Votto, not a guy to say much, called Cabrera the glue that holds this team together. It's also pretty obvious that Brandon Phillips loves the guy. Be careful what you wish for. Team chemistry is a tricky thing, and Cabrera is good for team chemistry. He was also injured a lot this season, by the way.

Kingspoint · 10-16-2010, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie52

Joey Votto, not a guy to say much, called Cabrera the glue that holds this team together. It's also pretty obvious that Brandon Phillips loves the guy. Be careful what you wish for. Team chemistry is a tricky thing, and Cabrera is good for team chemistry. He was also injured a lot this season, by the way.

Old guys get injured a lot.

And that team chemistry contributed to how many post-season wins?

Orlando Cabrera is more likely a reason why the team won't win a World Series than why the team would win a World Series.

If team chemistry is contingent on "Orlando Cabrera", then the whole team needs to grow a pair and man up.

Not saying it was Cabrera, but it was the "Veterans" who choked during the playoffs, while the younger players didn't choke. When it all comes down to it, chemistry isn't going to win you games in the playoffs....talent is.

Vottomatic · 10-16-2010, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosie52

Joey Votto, not a guy to say much, called Cabrera the glue that holds this team together. It's also pretty obvious that Brandon Phillips loves the guy. Be careful what you wish for. Team chemistry is a tricky thing, and Cabrera is good for team chemistry. He was also injured a lot this season, by the way.

It's a rarity, but I agree with Kingspoint.

They had their season to be lead by veterans. Now Votto, Bruce, and others need to step up and lead this team to the promised land.

Stray · 10-16-2010, 08:55 AM

I'm pretty sure Walt knows that Janish is the only answer for us at SS next year. Isn't great with the bat, but he handles it well. When he's at the plate it gives Dusty a lot of options as well, since you can rely on him getting a bunt down, going the other way, or just putting it in play.

Everything I've heard about Cabrera this year from the team has been great, the type of guy he is, and the way he keeps the clubhouse loose...that's awesome and all, but you don't pay a guy just for that. Like Vottomatic above me said, it's now time for that leadership role to be taken over by our young stars...can't always rely on the old guys. If he takes a lot less money to come back I wouldn't mind having him to give Janish some days off, and be a PH utility type of player. He knows he can't hold up for an entire season... I highly doubt that happens however.

mlh1981 · 10-16-2010, 09:47 AM

I'll pass on a soon to be 37 year old shortstop.

While I have no doubt he's a great guy in the clubhouse, I think that stuff can be blown out of proportion sometimes. Winning breeds chemistry. Not the other way around.

10-15-2010, 03:34 PM	#1
Kingspoint Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: All over Posts: 6,940	I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M That way he and his .263/.303/.354 line and 36-year old Shortstop defense can hit the highway. Walt has said that it's not prudent to give $4M to that kind of production when you've got a player at 1/10th the salary who plays lights-out better defense and actually hits better ready to take his place in Janish. Janish only needs to cover Shortstop for 2011 and be a backup to Cozart who can take over in 2012, with more help on the way after that. Cabrera is the type of player who thinks he's better than he is, so hopefully that carries him out of Cincinnati and onto another ballclub. I'd rather have Janish' Defense and Janish' better On-Base-Percentage. Janish' line: .260/.338/.385

10-15-2010, 03:42 PM	#2
Kingspoint Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: All over Posts: 6,940	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M The likely scenario is that he signs a 1-year deal for about $2.5M. That's too much, but Dusty will be the reason why. I woudn't want the guy if he was free. Janish is flat out a better player Offensively, and they are at opposite ends of the spectrum defensively.

10-15-2010, 03:46 PM	#3
Kingspoint Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: All over Posts: 6,940	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M Oh. And, with Rolen aging by the minute (anyone watch the playoffs?), the need for Janish' range at Shortstop is that much greater. Just go away permanently, Orlando.

10-15-2010, 04:23 PM	#4
Jack Burton Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,006	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M Give Janish a shot, he's earned it.

10-15-2010, 07:40 PM	#5
aldotcs Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 81	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M It's been astounding that more people don't think of Janish as The Guy. He ably came in as backup and seamlessly became every day. If they need salary for other guys and Janish is more than capable, why work hard to keep Ocab? __________________ If winning the division was easy, the Pirates would do it. Natty Redlocks

10-15-2010, 07:44 PM	#6
KYRedLeg Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nothern Kentucky Posts: 260	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M Janish is, without a doubt, my second favorite Red. No, Cabrera isn't my first. I loved watching Janish in August, and, while I don't want to see Cabrera injured, I was disappointed when he came back in. I really want to see Janish as our shortstop in 2011.

10-15-2010, 08:54 PM	#8
JKam Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 119	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M I don't think Orlando is as bad as everyone makes him out to be defensively, but it is just a pleasure to watch Janish play defense. He makes just about every play and he makes it look routine.

10-15-2010, 10:40 PM	#10
Natty Redlocks Recovering Cubs Fan Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 710	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M The way I see it, it's Jocketty's job to Dusty-proof the lineup. I'm glad he signed Cabrera, now I'll be glad to see him not bring him back. I even have a farewell serenade prepared, just for him: YouTube - Old Man __________________ FIRE DUSTY Never mind. The man is clearly a genius.

10-15-2010, 11:49 PM	#11
Moosie52 Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 563	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M Joey Votto, not a guy to say much, called Cabrera the glue that holds this team together. It's also pretty obvious that Brandon Phillips loves the guy. Be careful what you wish for. Team chemistry is a tricky thing, and Cabrera is good for team chemistry. He was also injured a lot this season, by the way.

10-16-2010, 08:55 AM	#14
Stray Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,760	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M I'm pretty sure Walt knows that Janish is the only answer for us at SS next year. Isn't great with the bat, but he handles it well. When he's at the plate it gives Dusty a lot of options as well, since you can rely on him getting a bunt down, going the other way, or just putting it in play. Everything I've heard about Cabrera this year from the team has been great, the type of guy he is, and the way he keeps the clubhouse loose...that's awesome and all, but you don't pay a guy just for that. Like Vottomatic above me said, it's now time for that leadership role to be taken over by our young stars...can't always rely on the old guys. If he takes a lot less money to come back I wouldn't mind having him to give Janish some days off, and be a PH utility type of player. He knows he can't hold up for an entire season... I highly doubt that happens however.

10-16-2010, 09:47 AM	#15
mlh1981 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 857	Re: I hope Orlando Cabrera is stubborn and will take no less than $4M I'll pass on a soon to be 37 year old shortstop. While I have no doubt he's a great guy in the clubhouse, I think that stuff can be blown out of proportion sometimes. Winning breeds chemistry. Not the other way around.

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