Offseason upgrades

[jwertz]

Clearly this team needs to improve its roster in order to really be a serious world series contender. A front of the rotation starter, a run producer to hit behing votto (preferably a right handed bat,) and a leadoff/high OBP guy for the top of the order. What is priority, what needs to be addressed in the offseason, and what can wait until the trade deadline? Listening to Walt Jocketty today on WLW I believe he really values the run producing bat to the middle of the order. He seemed comfortable with the pitching staff as is, and felt the same about the leadoff situation. I tend to agree with Walt. I am not counting on the same level of production from Rolen/Gomes. However, I am expecting added production from Bruce/Stubbs. What are your thoughts?

[Votto4MVP]

Originally Posted by jwertz

Clearly this team needs to improve its roster in order to really be a serious world series contender. A front of the rotation starter, a run producer to hit behing votto (preferably a right handed bat,) and a leadoff/high OBP guy for the top of the order. What is priority, what needs to be addressed in the offseason, and what can wait until the trade deadline? Listening to Walt Jocketty today on WLW I believe he really values the run producing bat to the middle of the order. He seemed comfortable with the pitching staff as is, and felt the same about the leadoff situation. I tend to agree with Walt. I am not counting on the same level of production from Rolen/Gomes. However, I am expecting added production from Bruce/Stubbs. What are your thoughts?

Matt Kemp. Might cost a lot but I think its worth it.

Power run producing bat that you could hit cleanup and play LF. Had an off year this year as far as average but in 07 hit .342 08 hit .290 and 09 hit .297.
Hit 26 homers for 101 rbis in 09 and 28 for 89 in 2010.

So if he played in GABP I could easily see him hitting close to .300 with 25-30 homers and 100 RBIs.

Also hes 26.

Match him with Bruce and Stubbs and we could have the best outfield in baseball, for the next 4-5 years.


Id trade one of our starters, lets say Bailey or Leake and Alonso or whoever to get him.

1. Stubbs
2. Phillips
3. Votto
4. Kemp
5. Bruce
6. Rolen
7. Hernandez/Hanny/Mez
8. Janish

Rotation would still have 6 of the 7 of Leake, Wood, bailey, Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Chapman.

Hell give them 2 starters of necessary.

Championship.

[jwertz]

My only worry with Kemp is his personality. I understand him to be a bit contentious. I wouldnt want to ruin the clubhouse environment that they have now. If I thought he wouldnt be a problem I would love to have Kemp in left. He is nifty with the glove, good pop, and should improve. He should come pretty cheap.

[gedred69]

Lead off hitter. Phillip and the team suffered by him hitting lead off. He is a natural free swinging #2, perfect for hitting in front of Votto.

[Vottomatic]

I'm becoming less interested in trading any of our young starters because I believe this upcoming season several of them will separate themselves from the rest of the pack, maybe even more.

And I definitely think as a whole, the starting pitching will be even more dominant.

If Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs can continue on the way they finished the season, the offense could be even that more improved.

Also, the Reds may be better seeing how things go next season and then making that trade for an ace at the deadline. There are usually options at the deadline and the Reds may have even more options/prospects to trade next year than they did this year, including having more answers about positions overall into the future. Who knows? Seattle may be in last place again and be willing to trade Sir Felix for a boatload of prospects, and this time, Walt pulls off the right deal.

You never know how things might go. We could be injury plagued and struggle. But our chances are better if we have the depth to overcome it.

Again, I'm becoming more and more comfortable with standing pat. Although a miracle signing of Carl Crawford would probably have me running naked down the streets of Blue Ash screaming for joy. Hehehe.

[jwertz]

I try to be realistic in my expectations, so I dont think there is a snowballs chance in heck that Carl Crawford, Jason Werth, or Cliff Lee are coming to Cincy. That said, I do believe Walt will suprise us with a signing or two, and a trade. He sounded very interested in adding that other bat. He did kick the tires on Damon last year, and almost brought Cliff Lee to town. So I wouldn't be suprised to see a trade for a middle of the order, all star caliber player. I wouldnt mind, finding a top flight starter either, but those guys are usually available at the trade deadline. Whatever happens I am sure it will be a good move. Walt hasn't let us down yet. Here's a couple names I'd like to throw out there, let me know what you think.

Nick Markakis

Jason Kubel

[Girevik]

I agree on the pitching....I think we're fine with the guys the Reds have on the roster. As much as I'd love to go get an ace, I think odds that one of the guys on the roster will become that guy outweigh the need to go spend a fortune (in either dollars or prospects) to get one.

I disagree on the leadoff guy, but those guys are few and far between. As much as I'd love to have a Crawford type of guy, I just don't know who that is (assuming Crawford isn't a viable option). There's also the issue of where you'd play that guy.

There are only a couple of spots that look to be open on the team (SS and LF), and I think the Reds need both a leadoff guy and a middle of the order guy. You likely aren't going to find a SS that fits either of those roles, so you're stuck with deciding what type of LF you want to go after. I think the middle of the bat guy is a bigger priority and hope that someone like Stubbs can be your leadoff hitter.

[Helms1]

You know, I'm leaning towards going all young, from within the system for a couple of years and the heck with high priced vets. I personally think there are about 30k fans that are going to be at the games, about 2.4 million a year, whether we win or are in the hunt. Go low with payroll and it will go down, win big and the upside is not that much. We committed fans have suffered long enough, and we are giddy, but no one is saying throw the baby out with the bathwater to win next year. Yeah, a special talent like Crawford and others ( a certain SS from FLA), get the baby ready for the bucket, but other than that, nail down the Vottos, Bruces and Stubbs of the world, the pitching staff, and go with the young guys. If we win with them, and they blossom, a decade of increasing wins and attendance. If we struggle, I don't think those of us that care will walk away. It's just not time to empty the cupboard for a big season, and we cannot afford that philosophy if we lose the top 5 prospects to get vet talent for a couple of years.

[krm1580]

The pitching staff is young and still on the upward swing of the career arc so that should improve this year. Paul Janish or Zack Cozart hitting #8 is not going to make or break the season. A middle of the order run producer that can play left is the most obvious spot for improvement. Unfortunately there are not very many viable options.

I think it will be another season of Jonny gomes.

[Vottomatic]

I like this thread. I agree with most of the comments.

[Stray]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really hope we don't go after Kemp. His numbers aren't that great, and they don't make him worth the amount he'd be making for a minimal upgrade. I'd love a leadoff hitter or a real bat behind Votto, and I agree with those saying they're comfortable with where our pitching staff is at the moment.

[PeteRoseBelongs]

I am not sure I agree with the comment " another year of Johnny Gomes" as though that is a really bad thing. if you compare Gomes to many Left Fielders in the game he had better production than the likes of Soriano in Chicago who is getting paid big dollars.

I would like to see some of the young guys get a shot. Dave Seppelt, Frazier, Cozart and the list goes on and on. Hey guys the Reds have been beating us to death with the youth movement for years. Lets allow the youth to step up and shine.

[brm7675]

Pitching is fine, don't touch anything.
SS is fine, put Janish there, bat him 8th and you are good
LF needs an upgrade, I can live with seeing what Heisey can do playing everyday, but have no issue dealing a pitcher/AAA player for a confirmed power hitting LF

[krm1580]

Originally Posted by PeteRoseBelongs

I am not sure I agree with the comment " another year of Johnny Gomes" as though that is a really bad thing. if you compare Gomes to many Left Fielders in the game he had better production than the likes of Soriano in Chicago who is getting paid big dollars.

I would like to see some of the young guys get a shot. Dave Seppelt, Frazier, Cozart and the list goes on and on. Hey guys the Reds have been beating us to death with the youth movement for years. Lets allow the youth to step up and shine.

I would not say it is a bad thing per se, but there are a couple of points I probably need to make to better support my statement.

Jonny Gomes is essentially a 1 tool guy - power. In 2009 he was slugging at a .541 clip and was brought back with the belief if he was close to that number as a full time player, the benefits would outweigh his liabilities. Well he ended up slugging .431, which was largely driven by a huge June. If you throw out June, he was slugging .375. Not what you want from your LF and we have not even talked about his defensive shortcomings.

Entering the 2011 season, I only expect Bruce and Stubbs to have any significant improvement on their 2010 numbers. I expect Rolen to decline by a signifcant amount and the catching tandem to be less productive. So where do you get better? Its possible Gomes could improve, but his career indicates 2010 is much more the normal than 2009. That is why I think LF needs to be addressed with a better option than Gomes.

The question of how becomes problematic. As I mentioned before I don't see many good options around. Of the guys mentioned earlier, Kubel signed today. Markakis would be nice but has a huge contract. Some people want Kemp but the Reds batting order is already highly "pitchable" due to the cluster of high strikeout guys and his 170/53 K to BB ratio is more of the same.

If I was thinking WAY outside the box, maybe they go out and get a Bill Butler from KC. He plays LF, badly, but he is right handed, has good power that is still developing and is a very, very good hitter that does not swing at every pitch thrown. Put him in the 4 spot behind Votto and the offense looks a lot more formidable.

KC has a bunch of 1B, DH type guys coming up through the minors so they might move him.

[mattfeet]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

I'm becoming less interested in trading any of our young starters because I believe this upcoming season several of them will separate themselves from the rest of the pack, maybe even more.

And I definitely think as a whole, the starting pitching will be even more dominant.

If Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs can continue on the way they finished the season, the offense could be even that more improved.

Also, the Reds may be better seeing how things go next season and then making that trade for an ace at the deadline. There are usually options at the deadline and the Reds may have even more options/prospects to trade next year than they did this year, including having more answers about positions overall into the future. Who knows? Seattle may be in last place again and be willing to trade Sir Felix for a boatload of prospects, and this time, Walt pulls off the right deal.

You never know how things might go. We could be injury plagued and struggle. But our chances are better if we have the depth to overcome it.

Again, I'm becoming more and more comfortable with standing pat. Although a miracle signing of Carl Crawford would probably have me running naked down the streets of Blue Ash screaming for joy. Hehehe.

You live too close to me...I might see that. Gimme a heads up so I can turn the other way.

-Matt