Early 2011 CBS/Sportsline Power Rankings....REDS #7

[Kingspoint]

Question: Has winning baseball returned to stay in Cincinnati, or will Dusty Baker revert to his old arm-shredding, OBP-ignorant self?

Strengths: They go seven deep in the rotation. Maybe the Reds trade from this happy (and affordable) excess to fill an organizational hole, like the one behind the plate.

Needs: One long-term contract for Joey Votto before the first-base market goes kablooey (see under: upcoming deals for Pujols, Gonzalez and Fielder); two reliable relievers (Brian Fuentes?); three everyday-player-type players, with "Help Wanted" signs currently posted at shortstop and in left field and an age- or injury-related vacancy looming at third base.

Odds of 2011 glory: Only two of the six NL Central teams currently exist in a state of something other than serene befuddlement, and the Reds are one of them. Gotta like those odds.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/1...until-february

........

[MikeThierry]

HAHAHA, this is the best line from that article:

"Only two of the six NL Central teams currently exist in a state of something other than serene befuddlement, and the Reds are one of them. Gotta like those odds."

I kind of feel bad for the Pirates with this sort of expectation:

"Question: Why haven't atheist groups targeted PNC Park for their recruiting pushes? Strengths: Post-game fireworks; low expectations. Needs: Everything, but mostly pitching and hope. Odds of 2011 glory: Come on now."

[MikeThierry]

Though I kind of question him putting the Giants in that 1st position. The Giants had a great team this year but a lot of their guys were reclamation projects and cast offs from other teams. I don't know if they will have the same success with that cast of characters like the Rangers or even the stacked Yankees will have.

[Roush's socks]

Great to see the Reds getting respect.

[davereds24]

"organizational hole, like the one behind the plate."

yeah, ok. i guess this guy missed the reds had one of the best producing catching tandems in baseball last year and have 2 first round picks that will be in AA and AAA next year.

[Roush's socks]

Originally Posted by davereds24

"organizational hole, like the one behind the plate."

yeah, ok. i guess this guy missed the reds had one of the best producing catching tandems in baseball last year and have 2 first round picks that will be in AA and AAA next year.

Yeah when I saw that I did a double take.

[brachial pleXUs]

Originally Posted by davereds24

"organizational hole, like the one behind the plate."

yeah, ok. i guess this guy missed the reds had one of the best producing catching tandems in baseball last year and have 2 first round picks that will be in AA and AAA next year.

The guy who did the hot stove predictions on SI.com had them as needing a catcher more than anything else and targeting (Get this!) Yorvit Torrealba. Do these guys do any research before they write?

[MikeThierry]

Do you think that when he is talking about organizational hole, he is talking about defense? Ramon Hernandez only threw out 34% of runners. Ryan Hanigan only threw out 32%. I agree that they probably got the most offensive production from the Catcher position than any other team in baseball but the defense leaves a bit to be desired.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by davereds24

"organizational hole, like the one behind the plate."

yeah, ok. i guess this guy missed the reds had one of the best producing catching tandems in baseball last year and have 2 first round picks that will be in AA and AAA next year.

He definitely missed that.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Do you think that when he is talking about organizational hole, he is talking about defense? Ramon Hernandez only threw out 34% of runners. Ryan Hanigan only threw out 32%. I agree that they probably got the most offensive production from the Catcher position than any other team in baseball but the defense leaves a bit to be desired.

That could be. Neither RED got a single vote for Gold Glove @ Catcher, while about 10 other Catchers received at least one vote.

[davereds24]

I doubt either one started even half the games at catcher this season so that's understandable.

Hanigan is a great defensive catcher, not sure why his runners thrown out percentage was down this year. Maybe due to half his games being with the slow throwing Arroyo but i didn't look into the details.

[DocRed]

I don't know who this guy is but he is an IDIOT if he thinks we need help behind the plate PERIOD.

[MikeThierry]

Looking at the defensive stats, there probably could be an upgrade for the Reds though do you want to sacrifice offense for defense? I think the catcher position is one spot in the lineup in which the offense can suffer a bit if that means you are going to get a stud defensive catcher. If you look at Molina, teams just shut down the run game when he is in the lineup. If the Reds have a catcher that nullifies the run game, it just adds a different dimension to the games played. This is actually an excellent breakdown of the best defensive catchers of 2010. It gets into the sort of advanced sabermetrics but it is well researched and well thought out:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/201...fense-rankings

So the guy suggesting Yorvit Torrealba actually wasn't that far off if there is a team looking for defense. If you look at Yorvit's offensive stats, he is a decent hitter as well so its not far off to say, in my opinion, that the Reds could seek him as an option if they want a decent hitter with good defense behind the plate. What surprised me is that Ivan Rodriguez is still getting it done behind the plate.

[MikeThierry]

Geesh, I was looking at Yadi's defensive stats. He threw out 64% of runners out in 2005.

[757690]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Geesh, I was looking at Yadi's defensive stats. He threw out 64% of runners out in 2005.

Yeah, it hard to compare Yadi's defense to other catcher's. He definitely has been in a league of his own (except for his brothers, lol) when it comes to defense.

But caught stealing percentage isn't the best stat to judge a catcher's ability to throw out runners, let alone his defense as a whole. A good defensive catcher will prohibit all but the true basestealers from running, which is why Yadi only had 68 runners attempt on him in 135 games. The average is about one a game.

Hernandez and Hanigan were well under one a game (around .65 combined). While not as great as Yadi, they had a pretty good year throwing out runners combined last season.

According to Fangraphs, which is not very accurate with catchers, to be honest, they both rated about right at league average overall. But that sems about right. They weren't gold glove caliber, but I don't think the Reds were complaining about their defense.