johnny cueto

[R_Webb18]

why does it seems like so many people hate him? imo hes one of our best pitchers and I think he will improve yet again next year. when ever I see trade this pitcher. Its always johnny cueto or volquez? If I had to pick any I'd trade volquez.

[lonewolf371]

I like Cueto a lot. I don't put his ceiling quite as high as some other do. I think he'll likely be around a #2 starter during his best years and won't quite make ace status, but hey, a solid #2 starter is probably worth well over $10 million a year in free agency so I have no problems with wrapping him up beyond arbitration. His control and standard stats have improved every year so far and he seems a solid bet to pan out to his potential, unlike Volquez who I think could go as high as ace status or simply fizzle out of MLB due to control problems.

[Vottomatic]

I like Cueto, but I used to love him. The Cardinals kicking incident might have stolen some of my love for him. Also, just when I think he's become dominant, he'll have one of those really bad outings which makes me question his ability.

Hopefully he continues to improve.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by R_Webb18

why does it seems like so many people hate him? imo hes one of our best pitchers and I think he will improve yet again next year. when ever I see trade this pitcher. Its always johnny cueto or volquez? If I had to pick any I'd trade volquez.

Yes! I agree 100% Volquez value will never be higher than now based on potential so this is the time to Package him for an Impact Player.

[mlh1981]

There was a start last year against the Royals that really showed to me that Cueto was developing in terms of mental toughness.

He started off the game BRUTALLY. The old Cueto would have completely caved in, but he picked himself off the mat, and though the final statline was bad, he kept us in the game, which I believe we won (without looking at the boxscore).

He's made nice progress, as he's taking the game more seriously and honing his craft.

[roby]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Yes! I agree 100% Volquez value will never be higher than now based on potential so this is the time to Package him for an Impact Player.

Maybe we could trade him for Josh hamilton...he's pretty good.

[flyersbaseball]

Originally Posted by mlh1981

There was a start last year against the Royals that really showed to me that Cueto was developing in terms of mental toughness.

He started off the game BRUTALLY. The old Cueto would have completely caved in, but he picked himself off the mat, and though the final statline was bad, he kept us in the game, which I believe we won (without looking at the boxscore).

He's made nice progress, as he's taking the game more seriously and honing his craft.

That game was the Saturday night bh game when Gomes had the 2 3-run HRS, they won

[lonewolf371]

Originally Posted by Hondo

Yes! I agree 100% Volquez value will never be higher than now based on potential so this is the time to Package him for an Impact Player.

Uh, I don't think Volquez has hardly any trade value at this point. There's too much risk associated with him for another team to gamble on him and give up valuable players. The Reds' best option by far is to sit on him and hope he returns to his former All-Star status.

Think about it this way: if you want to get rid of a guy, why would another team want him?

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by lonewolf371

Uh, I don't think Volquez has hardly any trade value at this point. There's too much risk associated with him for another team to gamble on him and give up valuable players. The Reds' best option by far is to sit on him and hope he returns to his former All-Star status.

Think about it this way: if you want to get rid of a guy, why would another team want him?

Well, I'm not looking to trade him.

BUT.......

In other discussions of trading for a quality leadoff hitter, ace pitcher, or good hitting LFer to bat behind Votto.......it's been discussed that we'd have to throw in one of our young starters. I like them all......BUT.........if I had to pick one to trade, Volquez would be on that list. I don't trade Wood......he's my favorite. I'm willing to trade 1 of the following - Bailey, Leake, Cueto or Volquez. Bailey has been up and down. Leake was strong all season and wore down at the end. Volquez was either brilliant or disastrous. Cueto was probably the most consistent, yet controversial. Wood had the best outings by far of any of them, IMHO.

[lonewolf371]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Well, I'm not looking to trade him.

BUT.......

In other discussions of trading for a quality leadoff hitter, ace pitcher, or good hitting LFer to bat behind Votto.......it's been discussed that we'd have to throw in one of our young starters. I like them all......BUT.........if I had to pick one to trade, Volquez would be on that list. I don't trade Wood......he's my favorite. I'm willing to trade 1 of the following - Bailey, Leake, Cueto or Volquez. Bailey has been up and down. Leake was strong all season and wore down at the end. Volquez was either brilliant or disastrous. Cueto was probably the most consistent, yet controversial. Wood had the best outings by far of any of them, IMHO.

Yeah, I get the getting a quality leadoff hitter, but my point is that most teams would rather just keep their quality leadoff hitter rather than deal him for a pitcher with shaky control that hasn't put together a full, quality season since Tommy John surgery. If Volquez actually does put together that season, then he'll be too valuable to trade. He's the least likely of the Reds' pitchers that gets traded, since he has too little value before a proven bounce-back and would have too much value after a bounce-back.

As for Wood, I think we should cool our expectations. Pitching 100 innings in the bigs is quite a bit different from going 180-200. Let's wait before we start calling him Cliff Lee.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by lonewolf371

Uh, I don't think Volquez has hardly any trade value at this point. There's too much risk associated with him for another team to gamble on him and give up valuable players. The Reds' best option by far is to sit on him and hope he returns to his former All-Star status.

Think about it this way: if you want to get rid of a guy, why would another team want him?

You could say that about every player traded... or discussed about being traded.

[lonewolf371]

Originally Posted by Hondo

You could say that about every player traded... or discussed about being traded.

The Mariners wanted to get rid of Cliff Lee? The Rangers wanted to get rid of Smoak and Ackley? The Red Sox wanted to part with three of their top ten prospects? If you want an impact player, you need to give up an impact player or someone that has a high chance of turning into an impact player that doesn't have a bunch of risk labels attached to him. Volquez has too much risk for any team to part with a solid lead-off hitter.

I think you need to part with one of the young guns to get another team to move. I wouldn't want to trade Wood due to his left-handedness and I think Cueto is simply too valuable. The main trade pieces are probably the usual Homer Bailey and Leake.

To be honest, though, I think the Reds are probably best off standing pat with what they have. Even dealing Bailey or Leake for a guy like Ellsbury would seem to be a loss for the Reds and I'm not into losing value in trades. It's nice to have 7 pitchers that can perform in The Show and it shouldn't be given away lightly. Sign a backup SS, platoon Heisey with Gomes, start Janish at SS, and try to get Stubbs going at lead-off with Brandon Phillips as option #2 if that goes wrong.

[Hondo]

Originally Posted by lonewolf371

The Mariners wanted to get rid of Cliff Lee? The Rangers wanted to get rid of Smoak and Ackley? The Red Sox wanted to part with three of their top ten prospects? If you want an impact player, you need to give up an impact player or someone that has a high chance of turning into an impact player that doesn't have a bunch of risk labels attached to him. Volquez has too much risk for any team to part with a solid lead-off hitter.

I think you need to part with one of the young guns to get another team to move. I wouldn't want to trade Wood due to his left-handedness and I think Cueto is simply too valuable. The main trade pieces are probably the usual Homer Bailey and Leake.

To be honest, though, I think the Reds are probably best off standing pat with what they have. Even dealing Bailey or Leake for a guy like Ellsbury would seem to be a loss for the Reds and I'm not into losing value in trades. It's nice to have 7 pitchers that can perform in The Show and it shouldn't be given away lightly. Sign a backup SS, platoon Heisey with Gomes, start Janish at SS, and try to get Stubbs going at lead-off with Brandon Phillips as option #2 if that goes wrong.

You're making my point exactley...

Just because I want to trade EV, doesn't mean some other team does not see value in him...

The Reds have a strength in starting pitching, they have a weakness at SS and Defense in Left Field.

So Edinson being my least favorite out of Wood, Leake, Cueto etc...

Thats who I would trade out of the rest of them...

[joshua]

I'm all for holding off trading any pitching. Next year should tell us ALOT about these guys. Everyone here seems to have a diffrent pick on who they think is going to break out and be an ace, best to wait it out and be more sure of what we have than gamble.

[lonewolf371]

Originally Posted by Hondo

You're making my point exactley...

Just because I want to trade EV, doesn't mean some other team does not see value in him...

The Reds have a strength in starting pitching, they have a weakness at SS and Defense in Left Field.

So Edinson being my least favorite out of Wood, Leake, Cueto etc...

Thats who I would trade out of the rest of them...

I'm telling you that Volquez wouldn't get you what you want. Maybe you could trade Volquez and get a 1-2 WAR lead-off with a .315 OBP, but you're not going to get Jose Reyes without adding a lot more.