Ohlendorf (1-11 record) defeats Pirates in arbitration

[Blitz Dorsey]

Good to know the arbitrator understands that ERA and WHIP are better measuring sticks for pitchers than W-L record:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6105146

But still ... $2 million for Ross Ohlendorf? Seems a bit much. The news keeps getting better for the Buccos.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

Good to know the arbitrator understands that ERA and WHIP are better measuring sticks for pitchers than W-L record:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6105146

But still ... $2 million for Ross Ohlendorf? Seems a bit much. The news keeps getting better for the Buccos.

The thing with the "either/or" decision of arbitration is that if one side or the other comes in with a number that's off, they're not going to succeed. Seeing the comparison to Volquez's salary in the article ($1.625), made it clear that the Pirates weren't going to win this one. They should have settled before arbitration and saved a few hundred grand. I'm guessing they could come in at around $1.7 or so had they done that.

[cumberlandreds]

Arbitration was the worst thing that the owners gave to the players back when free agency was starting up. They have been paying for it ever since with stupid desicions like this one with a big raises for extremely poor perfromances.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

Arbitration was the worst thing that the owners gave to the players back when free agency was starting up. They have been paying for it ever since with stupid desicions like this one with a big raises for extremely poor perfromances.

That's the point, he didn't have "an extremely poor performance".

[oneupper]

Pirates were offering $1.4 million. Ross wanted $2 million.
We're only really talking about $600.000 here, probably less assuming they could have settled in the middle.

That said, I wouldn't want Ohlendorf at either price.

[lollipopcurve]

The ever-visionary Bucs FO coming through again as they take on one of their starters over what probably amounted to $300K. And lose.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

The ever-visionary Bucs FO coming through again as they take on one of their starters over what probably amounted to $300K. And lose.

I envy them, so many ground breaking moves to make.

[Tony Cloninger]

To think that back in 1973 the owners thought this was a good idea in order to avoid the yearly holdouts that had been happening at the beginning of the 70's.

I remember during the middle 80's it was getting out of hand.....who can forget the Kal Daniels and Marge Schott coin flip?

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

To think that back in 1973 the owners thought this was a good idea in order to avoid the yearly holdouts that had been happening at the beginning of the 70's.

I remember during the middle 80's it was getting out of hand.....who can forget the Kal Daniels and Marge Schott coin flip?

The owners thought it was a good idea, Miller thought it was great. The players approached it from a better angle, they brought real stats and they used other players as comps. They also won out by using the young stars as the comps, the guys who were getting their FA years bought out early on. Prior to this the comps were always leveled at players through the lens of he's a "5 year player" , he's a "6 year player" and thus slotted accordingly.

Once that matrix fell it became numbers, and the players armed themselves better for the battle (Bill Jame's was a regular player in early arb hearings in providing stats for the players case.)

[Homer Bailey]

Only the Pirates would lose arbitration to a pitcher with a 1-11 record.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

The ever-visionary Bucs FO coming through again as they take on one of their starters over what probably amounted to $300K. And lose.

But $300K to the Pirates is a lot -- that's roughly how much revenue they will generate this season from a ticket sales perspective.

[dfs]

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

Arbitration was the worst thing that the owners gave to the players back when free agency was starting up. They have been paying for it ever since with stupid desicions like this one with a big raises for extremely poor perfromances.

If arbitration was that bad for the owners, they would simply stop offering it and let all the talent walk.

At that point the market would be flooded with talent and prices would drop.

We've started to see that with guys in the free agent class, but not in the years 4-6 arbitration group. I have to think that means those guys in years 4-6 are still a pretty good bargain for the clubs no matter how much they whine about arbitration.

[camisadelgolf]

Is anyone else's head itching? Ohlendorf is going to make $375,000 more than Edinson Volquez this year.
nb4dandruffjoke

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Is anyone else's head itching? Ohlendorf is going to make $375,000 more than Edinson Volquez this year.
nb4dandruffjoke

Ohlendorf over the last two seasons:
285 innings, 3.98 ERA, 1.29 WHIP

Volquez over the last two seasons:
112.1 innings, 4.33 ERA, 1.42 WHIP

If you are going to be presenting a case based on numbers, Volquez is likely to lose. Now, is anyone going to really take Ohlendorf over Volquez moving forward? Doubtful. But he deserves the money he is getting. The guy has been a pretty solid pitcher the last two seasons.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Ohlendorf over the last two seasons:
285 innings, 3.98 ERA, 1.29 WHIP

Volquez over the last two seasons:
112.1 innings, 4.33 ERA, 1.42 WHIP

If you are going to be presenting a case based on numbers, Volquez is likely to lose. Now, is anyone going to really take Ohlendorf over Volquez moving forward? Doubtful. But he deserves the money he is getting. The guy has been a pretty solid pitcher the last two seasons.

Yeah, I don't mean to say it's unfair or unreasonable. It's just that it's pretty obvious what a talent gap there is between those two. But to your point, it's not like the numbers prior to 2009 would be ignored in an arbitration case. If you look at both of their career numbers, this is what you get:

Ross Ohlendorf
354 IP, 246 SO, 13 wins, 25 losses, 4.40 ERA, 1.390 WHIP, 3.3 WAR (b-r)

Edinson Volquez
388.1 IP, 375 SO, 28 wins, 22 losses, 4.36 ERA, 1.476 WHIP, one All-Star appearance, 4.2 WAR (b-r)

With the exception of WHIP, Volquez is superior in pretty much every way according to the numbers. And if you want to cherry-pick stats to make an argument, let's compare what each has done since 2008 as opposed to 2009.