Thank goodness Volquez was foolish enough to turn down the LTC

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

Volquez should fire his agent if he hasn't already. Will be interesting to see how much $$ that incredibly foolish decision ends up costing him. Not saying it will be on the level of Nomar turning down the Red Sox's deal a few years ago, but Volquez will always regret that decision.

Not sure if you play black jack, if not this analogy won't make much sense.
But if you have 20, no matter what the dealer is showing, the correct play is to stay. If the dealer turns over 21, there isn't much you can do. You obviously can not predict the future.

Edinson's hand wasn't that strong, but he still was gambling that he'd be more valuable after a full healthy season then he was at that time. No matter how that turned out, the decision was still based on whether he felt like he could pitch better than he had in the previous season.

This past winter, there was no reason for him to think he'd have a worse season then one which didn't even start until July and still featured it's ups and downs.

That his gamble hasn't paid off doesn't make the decision better or worse.
It's really the same logic on the trade. Both Edinson and Hamilton had their virtues and risks associated.
Just because Edinson's risks have come to fruition and Hamilton's haven't yet doesn't make the cost to assume those risks and virtues at the time any different.

That said, I'm glad he turned it down, because if he doesn't improve, there's nothing that keeps him from being cut.

[REDREAD]

Yea, getting back to the original statement of this thread.
Thank God we are not stuck with Edinson for 4 years at 21 million.
Edinson had a chance to be paid as well as Cueto (who has accomplished much more) and turned it down.

Edinson would be a total liablity if he had agreed to that extension.
Although he has little value now, at least he's not an immovable albotross.

[cinreds21]

So wait, does Volquez have options left?

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Not sure if you play black jack, if not this analogy won't make much sense.
But if you have 20, no matter what the dealer is showing, the correct play is to stay. If the dealer turns over 21, there isn't much you can do. You obviously can not predict the future.

Edinson's hand wasn't that strong, but he still was gambling that he'd be more valuable after a full healthy season then he was at that time. No matter how that turned out, the decision was still based on whether he felt like he could pitch better than he had in the previous season.

This past winter, there was no reason for him to think he'd have a worse season then one which didn't even start until July and still featured it's ups and downs.

That his gamble hasn't paid off doesn't make the decision better or worse.
It's really the same logic on the trade. Both Edinson and Hamilton had their virtues and risks associated.
Just because Edinson's risks have come to fruition and Hamilton's haven't yet doesn't make the cost to assume those risks and virtues at the time any different.

That said, I'm glad he turned it down, because if he doesn't improve, there's nothing that keeps him from being cut.

I play a lot of blackjack -- by far my favorite table game. In fact, really the only table game I will play. However, I still don't like that analogy. I know what you're trying to say, but even you say yourself "Edinson's hand wasn't that strong." That's exactly the point I was making. He should have known better than anyone that his '08 season was a fluke and should have gotten the long-term security the Reds offered. Thank goodness he didn't.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Anyone else notice Josh Hamilton was activated the same day Volquez was sent down?

[VR]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

FYI, Masset has been outstanding over the past month plus. That's called paying dividends. I'll take that over the unknown after dropping him after one or two poor outings. Also, I'm not sure what high leverage situations you speak of regarding Janish but he has 19 PAs hitting second. If that's what you are talking about, then I think you may be overreacting.

Chapman, sure. But also with EV you aren't going to pull him immediately. Most of his issues have been 1st inning, he has only really started to go down the tubes.

You cannot manically manage your roster like a fantasy or video game roster. No one will want to play for you if you get dropped after a few bad games.

Who's getting dropped? HIGH LEVERAGE SITUATIONS. When Paul Janish is 0-19 in the 2 hole, let's quit pretending he can hit there. When EV is in his 11th start in which he can't sniff getting to the 7th inning or not having a walkfest. Why wait until the 11th to have to overreact and send him down. Maybe after the 6th start....you skip one and give him some extended time to get things under control. No, you don't do that, you wait until it's an abject trainwreck and then you do something.

Nick Masset was finally removed from high leverage situations to work things out. Now he's back in them. It's really kind of a cool thing.....maybe I learned that on a video game, who knows.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by VR

Who's getting dropped? HIGH LEVERAGE SITUATIONS. When Paul Janish is 0-19 in the 2 hole, let's quit pretending he can hit there. When EV is in his 11th start in which he can't sniff getting to the 7th inning or not having a walkfest. Why wait until the 11th to have to overreact and send him down. Maybe after the 6th start....you skip one and give him some extended time to get things under control. No, you don't do that, you wait until it's an abject trainwreck and then you do something.

Nick Masset was finally removed from high leverage situations to work things out. Now he's back in them. It's really kind of a cool thing.....maybe I learned that on a video game, who knows.

Masset had 4 poor outings in a row and then was dropped. At what point do you drop one of your best relievers from high leverage situations and then put him back? 2? 3?

No one is also pretending Janish can hit in the 2 spot. They are trying to get him going. Do you really think Dusty pictures him as the prototypical 2 guy?

[Spitball]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

Anyone else notice Josh Hamilton was activated the same day Volquez was sent down?

And he homered in his first at bat.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

He should have known better than anyone that his '08 season was a fluke and should have gotten the long-term security the Reds offered. Thank goodness he didn't.

Have you known any high level athlete who ever thought they got lucky?
Why should he have known that the success was a fluke?

I'm not sure we can definitively say that its a fluke yet.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Have you known any high level athlete who ever thought they got lucky?
Why should he have known that the success was a fluke?

I'm not sure we can definitively say that its a fluke yet.

Can we try and stay on-topic? We're talking about Edinson Volquez, not high-level athletes.

[WebScorpion]

Originally Posted by cinreds21

So wait, does Volquez have options left?

I think the question now is, "Why was the option not exercised a month ago?"