Tired of hearing this PR crap about what great depth we have

[takealeake]

We don't. We're 23rd in ERA in MLB and last year wasn't that much better. Our best starting pitcher who has played the entire year is Arroyo with a 4.11 ERA. Cueto and Bailey are doing well now in their first couple starts, but we'll see how long that last as usual.

Basically we have 7-8 guys that are just good enough to be in the majors and aren't scrap heap pitchers off the waiver wire or rehab hopefuls, so thats considered "depth" when it really isn't. I'm tired of hearing "oh well this guy is only X years old just wait!' then year after year they don't get any better. Volquez is trash and either he needs to go or the coaching staff needs to go for not getting him in line, along with having guys like Wood and Leake regress. Either they suck, or our coaching staff sucks, it can't be both if we supposedly have this great depth and potential that never comes to fruition.

[R_Webb18]

Originally Posted by takealeake

We don't. We're 23rd in ERA in MLB and last year wasn't that much better. Our best starting pitcher who has played the entire year is Arroyo with a 4.11 ERA. Cueto and Bailey are doing well now in their first couple starts, but we'll see how long that last as usual.

Basically we have 7-8 guys that are just good enough to be in the majors and aren't scrap heap pitchers off the waiver wire or rehab hopefuls, so thats considered "depth" when it really isn't. I'm tired of hearing "oh well this guy is only X years old just wait!' then year after year they don't get any better. Volquez is trash and either he needs to go or the coaching staff needs to go for not getting him in line, along with having guys like Wood and Leake regress. Either they suck, or our coaching staff sucks, it can't be both if we supposedly have this great depth and potential that never comes to fruition.

cueto was good last yr

[R_Webb18]

no1 ever said we had an ACE we just have pitchers that can keep you into the game.

[NeilHamburger]

I think the team was overrated from the start. By the end of the Milwaukee series I think this team will be in 3rd or 4th place, and that will be where they will stay this year. Somewhere around 80 wins is where they finish I suspect, give 5 wins either way.

[R_Webb18]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

I think the team was overrated from the start. By the end of the Milwaukee series I think this team will be in 3rd or 4th place, and that will be where they will stay this year. Somewhere around 80 wins is where they finish I suspect, give 5 wins either way.

lol

[takealeake]

Originally Posted by R_Webb18

no1 ever said we had an ACE we just have pitchers that can keep you into the game.

23rd ERA and rising isn't keeping you in the game. Heck I wonder how it even compares to the Milton/Graves days, probably not that much better at this point.

[R_Webb18]

Originally Posted by takealeake

23rd ERA and rising isn't keeping you in the game. Heck I wonder how it even compares to the Milton/Graves days, probably not that much better at this point.

the reds are also 2nd in batting do youi consider them the 2nd best offensive team? NO.

[Kevin1476]

We need to send Smith down tonight, bring up Horst...He deserves a shot. Fifth starter needs to be replaced, either LeCure, Willis, Maloney, or Reineke( pitched good today) Their are relievers at AA Christiani, Joseph, or Boxberger.

[Maker_84]

Originally Posted by takealeake

We don't. We're 23rd in ERA in MLB and last year wasn't that much better. Our best starting pitcher who has played the entire year is Arroyo with a 4.11 ERA. Cueto and Bailey are doing well now in their first couple starts, but we'll see how long that last as usual.

Basically we have 7-8 guys that are just good enough to be in the majors and aren't scrap heap pitchers off the waiver wire or rehab hopefuls, so thats considered "depth" when it really isn't. I'm tired of hearing "oh well this guy is only X years old just wait!' then year after year they don't get any better. Volquez is trash and either he needs to go or the coaching staff needs to go for not getting him in line, along with having guys like Wood and Leake regress. Either they suck, or our coaching staff sucks, it can't be both if we supposedly have this great depth and potential that never comes to fruition.

+1000, i pointed this out a long time ago and got bashed. Hitting depth isn't very good either

[Vottomatic]

Kinda hard to know if we have hitting depth when Dusty sends out the same lineup nearly every night.

[markymark69]

Yet most on here do not want to trade any of the players we have to try to get better.

As far as regressing or someone being trash - it's not that cut and dried. It's about making adjustments - and maturity. Volquez has done neither. Bailey and Cueto are maturing and seem to be capable of making adjustments now.

We have to remember Arroyo is still dealing with the effects of mono. I've never had it - but know people that have and the Reds are probably fortunate they gotten what they have out of Arroyo. Wood is mature - we now have to wait and see how he does with the adjustment part of the equation.

Leake has proven that he is not as mature as perhaps we thought and he has struggled in making adjustments. We have to remember that the other teams have players who are professionals too.

Same way with the offense, some are struggling with both maturity and adjustments - mostly it appears to be adjustments.

I predict when Alonso gets called up it will take one 0-for-4 for this board to light up and say he wasn't ready - see our depth is not very good, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[The DARK]

Depth is lightning in a bottle. Last year, we had great depth; this year, it's mostly the same guys not living up to our standards. We laughed at the Cards for their terrible depth last year; this year, it's those same backups putting up decent numbers and Wainwright's replacement coming out of nowhere to be one of their best starters.

For the record, I believe we do have good depth. Leake may have pitched poorly, but he was still a first round draft pick, projects to be a mid-rotation arm, and had a solid time last year. Likewise, Wood has struggled, but he had both a no hitter bid and perfect game bid this season and last season respectively, worked his way up through the minors brilliantly, and had one of the finest late-season runs of any NL pitcher. Arroyo is the same as he ever was, and Cueto and Bailey have been shutdown so far. And while Volquez shows only wildly inconsistent signs of being the pitcher we thought he could be, Lecure has been a capable backup (to say nothing of Maloney, for after his poor outing with the big club, he's been excellent in AAA). Really, our depth is there; it just hasn't been performing.

Our bench bats have performed mostly to expectations; they just haven't been the x-factor that they were last year, with Cairo having a monster season and Nix playing far beyond his usual capacity. The bullpen has been pretty bad, but a lot of these guys are either good players having a bad start (Masset, Maloney) or unproven guys who have a lot of stuff to work out (Smith, Chapman). And for every Gomes and Renteria in the lineup, there's another Hernandez and Phillips, playing above expectations.

Depth is a wildly variable thing, but it's still early. If this keeps up, we'll make adjustments (you saw how long Lincoln lasted last year), and move on. If Gomes and Smith can't cut it, they'll be toast soon enough. Gomes essentially only starts half the games now, probably less once he can't be the DH, and Smith was relegated to mop-up today. We can keep Smith in AAA as long as we like until he forces his way back through, like we're doing with Herrera. If his play dictates it, Gomes can be cut to make room for any one of the eager future left fielders in AAA. Trades will start to heat up as well, if bringing in a big-time SS is necessary.

[Kevin1476]

Nice Post "The Dark", but I guess I am impatient. We may have the depth, but by not getting the results from out depth could put us two games under .500 after this roadtrip. I think we need to either play some of these young guys at AAA, or package a few for a trade. I would love to get Reyes now!

[signalhome]

Originally Posted by R_Webb18

the reds are also 2nd in batting do youi consider them the 2nd best offensive team? NO.

Yes, I absolutely do; nearly every metric you wish to observe has the Reds as being one of the best offensive teams in baseball. Teams do not score 4-5 runs every single game. Runs sometimes come in spurts, and then a team will go a few games struggling to scrape together 2 or 3. That's how baseball goes. There is way too much being made about the Reds' inconsistency from the plate.

Now, pitching, on the other hand. Completely different story.

[ntorvik]

I'm not worried about our offense. However, when you give up 2,3,4 runs in the first few innings of a game because of shoddy pitching, the pressure is put on your offense and that's never a good scenario. EV has done exactly that all season, put pressure on our offense. The offense, luckily, has pulled out a few, but it has happened far too often this season. Now, we have to play the Phillies tonight with Chase Utley returning, but we absolutely cannot get in a hole against this team.