What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Ron Madden · 01-26-2011, 04:41 AM

This is from John Fay, How would you grade the offseason?

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/201...hem-a-solid-c/

.

redsmetz · 01-26-2011, 05:39 AM

I would disagree with Fay's grade (a "C"). He says, giving them that grade, "They didn’t do a lot, but I don’t think they had to do a lot." I would concur with that, but put the grade at a "B" myself. Fay grades down since the club hadn't signed a "sure fire lead off" batter. I don't mark it down much for that.

It wasn't a sexy off-season, but I think the grade moves up with their own internal signings (even without getting some of Votto's FA years covered). Of course, this assumes they have actually finalize the alleged agreement with Johnny Cueto.

mth123 · 01-26-2011, 07:34 AM

D.

Most of the signings were decent value, but reallly nobody with impact. By 2013 the situatiions at 2B and 3B will be questionable and the MVP at 1B will be real expensive, in his walk year and probably on his way out of town. All three spots will suffer a drop off soon. 2011 and 2012 is probably when this team's talent level is at its high point yet no acquisition to provide that extra oomph to get this team over the top was accomplished.

Meanwhile, there is a glut of role player types on the firnges of the roster in all areas and they really won't have use for many of them. If there was ever a year to put together a package of kids to get that one more guy, it was this winter IMO.

A great deal for Bruce. a nice value signing of Fred Lewis and minor league deals to Dontrell Willis and Jeremy Hermida keep this from being an F IMO.

Caveman Techie · 01-26-2011, 07:44 AM

I have to break up the off-season in two parts. First part is improving the team from last season, and with that I have to give a D+. Starting pitching, is going to be better off this year more from subtraction (Harang) than from any additions. The Bullpen is most definitely weaker with the subtraction of Rhodes, however there is potential that D-train and Chapman are able to more than make up for his loss. SS is really the only place I see the Reds made improvement, Janish + Renteria > Cabrerea + Janish.

Second part would be solidifying the future, and there I have to give the off-season an A. Signing Bruce, Votto, Arroyo, and Cueuto sets up the core of the Reds to compete for many years yet.

Overall grade I guess would B-.

mth123 · 01-26-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redlegz

I have to break up the off-season in two parts. First part is improving the team from last season, and with that I have to give a D+. Starting pitching, is going to be better off this year more from subtraction (Harang) than from any additions. The Bullpen is most definitely weaker with the subtraction of Rhodes, however there is potential that D-train and Chapman are able to more than make up for his loss. SS is really the only place I see the Reds made improvement, Janish + Renteria > Cabrerea + Janish.

Second part would be solidifying the future, and there I have to give the off-season an A. Signing Bruce, Votto, Arroyo, and Cueuto sets up the core of the Reds to compete for many years yet.

Overall grade I guess would B-.

How much of the future did they really solidify? Outside of Bruce I don't see much. Votto, at least under the current CBA, would have been here anyway, Cueto's deal is OK and I'm betting we won't like the 4th year when the specifics are anounced anyhow. I wasn't really in favor of extending Arroyo in the first place.

Bruce' deal was a really good signing. I do give credit for that one.

Mario-Rijo · 01-26-2011, 09:03 AM

Well let's see if they can pass my checklist of things I wanted to see this offseason.

#1 - The biggest priority in my mind was the big RH bat they said they needed the offseason before and they still don't have him!

#2 - A legit Ace of the staff. If Volquez becomes that (because short of our LH set up man there is no one else I think qualifies to be one) then I will cut them a little slack but short of that happening i thought they should pursue Greinke the deal was just too good to pass on IMO. And then to see the Brewers get him on top of it all really sucked.

#3 - A leadoff hitter. Had they done one or both of the 1st 2 I wouldn't have expected them to sink much money into this and would have settled for a guy who could possibly pull it off. They didn't get #1 or 2 done but they also didn't sink much money into this either. But since I like Fred Lewis and targeted him myself just before he was released by Toronto and I think he will do an admirable job I'll cut them a little slack, at least they realized this needed addressing, that at least shows a little foresight on their part.

#4 - Not to exercise Bronson's option and pay his buyout or exercise it but don't extend him. Either of these scenarios I could have lived with preferably the former. I like what Bronson brings to the table but knowing we have limited funds I hoped they would use this money towards a true ace or a big bat. Also don't like Bronson's outlook for the length of the contract (or Rolens extension either but that is another topic).

#5 - Get Aroldis into the rotation either in Louisville or Cincy, preferably the former until ready for the latter. I pretty much knew how this was gonna shake, well at least the possibility crossed my mind that they would not re-sign Arthur and act like "man now we have to use Aroldis in the pen".

#6 - Get a good reliable defensive SS who could also hit a little at the top of the lineup. Again Jason Bartlett in my mind should have been their main target. Bartlett wasn't ideal but the closest thing to it that also happened to be available. They got a run down (much worse IMO than OCab) old guy to back up a run down young guy.

#7 - Re-sign Rhodes or at least get a draft pick out of the guy, they did neither.

So they did virtually nothing that I would have liked to have seen. Though of the guys they went after I at least like what they came up with in Lewis and Hermida. I'm not thrilled about Willis but I know he was their like 5th option or so, tough to nail them to the wall on that.

Grade D: with a shot to be a respectable C.

**EDIT**
I got a bit weary at the end of this earlier and after a boost of caffeine I will add the following.

#8 - Extensions for the core. What Jocketty did with Bruce is nothing short of amazing and it's mighty huge for this franchise, especially in light of how Votto is squirming around about sticking around. Arroyo I wasn't for so I gotta keep that in mind, Cueto I think is a solid deal, a tad risky but a deal I think they probably should have done. And although Votto was gonna be here anyway it appears to me that signing him to what he should likely be making in all fairness is part of the strategy to get Votto to perhaps feel a little better about signing down the road, otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever. So for that I gotta give them credit for trying to keep the 2 key foundation players in house for the long haul.

Grade C

lollipopcurve · 01-26-2011, 09:09 AM

B

The Bruce contract is huge. Cueto's deal looks like a good one too. Zero young talent sacrificed. They're putting/keeping the pieces in place for a sustained run.

I would have liked to see them get Greinke, but in the end I don't think they could have beat the Milwaukee offer without shooting themselves in the foot.

bucksfan2 · 01-26-2011, 09:15 AM

B

The Reds weren't going to replace or upgrade 1b, 2b, 3b, CF, RF, and P. I didn't expect them to do anything in that area.

What I liked
The extensions of Votto, Bruce, Cueto, and Arroyo. Votto because it avoids any kind of nasty arbitration and gives the Reds stress free years to work out a long term deal or trade.

The Lewis, Hermedia, and Willis signing. Low risk who should provide more production out of LF than last season.

The Ramon Hernandez signing. No need to change much of anything with Mes and Grandal on the horizon.

The Renteria signing. If he plays SS and 3b there should be an upgrade over Cabrera/Janish at SS and he should provide a more reliable solution at 3b than Cairo.

What I didn't like

No trades. Alonso still remains in the fold. The pitching staff is 6-7 deep and everyone remains in the fold. IMO that could have been used to get an impact bat.

REDREAD · 01-26-2011, 09:46 AM

I think Walt really wanted to hang on to the core of young guys and gain some finanicial planning. It is true, he didn't really "gain" any years other than Bruce, but now with the budget in place, maybe he will be able to make some more moves in the future.

I think Fred Lewis will be a great signing (and possibly Heremedia), only because it lets Gomes platton. Lewis is an upgrade from Nix. It's hard to say whether Renturia was an upgrade to OCab or not (as a whole). OCab was great the first half, but really faded in the second half.

I wonder if 2011 will be a test to see how many more tickets are sold after winning a division. Hopefully we get an attendence bump that lets the team spend more money.

I give the team a B. I would've liked a better SS and LF, but I'm sure Walt spent all the money he had.. Looks like he didn't have much cash to upgrade those positions.

As far as packaging minor leaguers .. I am not sure that trading Wood or Leake for a slightly above average OF would've gone over well.. Homer and Volquez are kind of inconsistent and unknown now.. not sure their trade value is right yet.

PuffyPig · 01-26-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDREAD

OCab was great the first half, but really faded in the second half.

His OPS in the 1st half was .612, 2nd half was .763, though he missed time with injuries in the 2nd half, which allowed the better Janish to play.

But fade he didn't.

PuffyPig · 01-26-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

#7 - Re-sign Rhodes or at least get a draft pick out of the guy, they did neither.

To get a draft pick we would have had to offer arbitration, which would have all but assured he would have come back for a big payday.

Considering what it would have cost, I think we will find it was a good move to move on from him.

Mario-Rijo · 01-26-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

To get a draft pick we would have had to offer arbitration, which would have all but assured he would have come back for a big payday.

Considering what it would have cost, I think we will find it was a good move to move on from him.

Perhaps, which is part of the reason why I said "with a shot at a respectable C".

bucksfan2 · 01-26-2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

To get a draft pick we would have had to offer arbitration, which would have all but assured he would have come back for a big payday.

Considering what it would have cost, I think we will find it was a good move to move on from him.

I think Rhodes is a guy who screamed stay away from. The guy will be 41 next season and broke down in the second half of the season. He was invaluable last year but signing 41 year old relievers to multi million dollar contracts, especially for multiple years is a bad idea.

Mario-Rijo · 01-26-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I think Rhodes is a guy who screamed stay away from. The guy will be 41 next season and broke down in the second half of the season. He was invaluable last year but signing 41 year old relievers to multi million dollar contracts, especially for multiple years is a bad idea.

Offering arbitration would not have made for a multi year contract. But I said long ago that I thought he could end up with one from somewhere so offering arb. wasn't as risky IMO. But should he be unhealthy this season I will concede it was the right thing to do.

OnBaseMachine · 01-26-2011, 11:30 AM

Around a C I guess.

I loved the Bruce and Cueto extensions and the Votto signing. I also liked the Fred Lewis signing...

Negatives:

While I'm a huge Bronson Arroyo fan, I wouldn't have extended him just yet. I would have waited until after the 2011 season before considering it.

Not a fan of bringing Miguel Cairo or Jonny Gomes back.

Still failed to address left field. I like bringing in Fred Lewis but I would have preferred a David DeJesus type for left field.

I don't like that the Reds aren't even going to give Chapman a chance to win a spot in the rotation in Spring Training. If he doesn't win a starting spot, fine, put him in the bullpen this year but don't just automatically put him in the pen without giving him a chance to start. JMO.

Signing Volquez to an extension would bump my grade up a little.

01-26-2011, 09:46 AM	#9
REDREAD Where's my chair? Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 19,799	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? I think Walt really wanted to hang on to the core of young guys and gain some finanicial planning. It is true, he didn't really "gain" any years other than Bruce, but now with the budget in place, maybe he will be able to make some more moves in the future. I think Fred Lewis will be a great signing (and possibly Heremedia), only because it lets Gomes platton. Lewis is an upgrade from Nix. It's hard to say whether Renturia was an upgrade to OCab or not (as a whole). OCab was great the first half, but really faded in the second half. I wonder if 2011 will be a test to see how many more tickets are sold after winning a division. Hopefully we get an attendence bump that lets the team spend more money. I give the team a B. I would've liked a better SS and LF, but I'm sure Walt spent all the money he had.. Looks like he didn't have much cash to upgrade those positions. As far as packaging minor leaguers .. I am not sure that trading Wood or Leake for a slightly above average OF would've gone over well.. Homer and Volquez are kind of inconsistent and unknown now.. not sure their trade value is right yet. __________________ Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2012 AND 2013! Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

01-26-2011, 11:30 AM	#15
OnBaseMachine Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 34,655	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? Around a C I guess. I loved the Bruce and Cueto extensions and the Votto signing. I also liked the Fred Lewis signing... Negatives: While I'm a huge Bronson Arroyo fan, I wouldn't have extended him just yet. I would have waited until after the 2011 season before considering it. Not a fan of bringing Miguel Cairo or Jonny Gomes back. Still failed to address left field. I like bringing in Fred Lewis but I would have preferred a David DeJesus type for left field. I don't like that the Reds aren't even going to give Chapman a chance to win a spot in the rotation in Spring Training. If he doesn't win a starting spot, fine, put him in the bullpen this year but don't just automatically put him in the pen without giving him a chance to start. JMO. Signing Volquez to an extension would bump my grade up a little. __________________ I miss Adam Dunn. Last edited by OnBaseMachine; 01-26-2011 at 11:56 AM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-26-2011, 04:41 AM	#1
Ron Madden Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,815	What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? This is from John Fay, How would you grade the offseason? http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/201...hem-a-solid-c/ .

01-26-2011, 05:39 AM	#2
redsmetz Redsmetz Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winton Place Posts: 10,451	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? I would disagree with Fay's grade (a "C"). He says, giving them that grade, "They didn’t do a lot, but I don’t think they had to do a lot." I would concur with that, but put the grade at a "B" myself. Fay grades down since the club hadn't signed a "sure fire lead off" batter. I don't mark it down much for that. It wasn't a sexy off-season, but I think the grade moves up with their own internal signings (even without getting some of Votto's FA years covered). Of course, this assumes they have actually finalize the alleged agreement with Johnny Cueto. __________________ “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field" The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com The Baseball Bookstore http://tsc-sales.com/ http://tscsales.blogspot.com/ http://silverscreenbooks.com/

01-26-2011, 07:34 AM	#3
mth123 The Big Dog Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,685	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? D. Most of the signings were decent value, but reallly nobody with impact. By 2013 the situatiions at 2B and 3B will be questionable and the MVP at 1B will be real expensive, in his walk year and probably on his way out of town. All three spots will suffer a drop off soon. 2011 and 2012 is probably when this team's talent level is at its high point yet no acquisition to provide that extra oomph to get this team over the top was accomplished. Meanwhile, there is a glut of role player types on the firnges of the roster in all areas and they really won't have use for many of them. If there was ever a year to put together a package of kids to get that one more guy, it was this winter IMO. A great deal for Bruce. a nice value signing of Fred Lewis and minor league deals to Dontrell Willis and Jeremy Hermida keep this from being an F IMO. __________________ "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS Last edited by mth123; 01-26-2011 at 11:12 AM.

01-26-2011, 07:44 AM	#4
Caveman Techie Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 820	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? I have to break up the off-season in two parts. First part is improving the team from last season, and with that I have to give a D+. Starting pitching, is going to be better off this year more from subtraction (Harang) than from any additions. The Bullpen is most definitely weaker with the subtraction of Rhodes, however there is potential that D-train and Chapman are able to more than make up for his loss. SS is really the only place I see the Reds made improvement, Janish + Renteria > Cabrerea + Janish. Second part would be solidifying the future, and there I have to give the off-season an A. Signing Bruce, Votto, Arroyo, and Cueuto sets up the core of the Reds to compete for many years yet. Overall grade I guess would B-. __________________ "I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road." Stephen Hawking

01-26-2011, 09:03 AM	#6
Mario-Rijo HOF CLASS OF '12 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Springfield, Ohio Posts: 8,994	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? Well let's see if they can pass my checklist of things I wanted to see this offseason. #1 - The biggest priority in my mind was the big RH bat they said they needed the offseason before and they still don't have him! #2 - A legit Ace of the staff. If Volquez becomes that (because short of our LH set up man there is no one else I think qualifies to be one) then I will cut them a little slack but short of that happening i thought they should pursue Greinke the deal was just too good to pass on IMO. And then to see the Brewers get him on top of it all really sucked. #3 - A leadoff hitter. Had they done one or both of the 1st 2 I wouldn't have expected them to sink much money into this and would have settled for a guy who could possibly pull it off. They didn't get #1 or 2 done but they also didn't sink much money into this either. But since I like Fred Lewis and targeted him myself just before he was released by Toronto and I think he will do an admirable job I'll cut them a little slack, at least they realized this needed addressing, that at least shows a little foresight on their part. #4 - Not to exercise Bronson's option and pay his buyout or exercise it but don't extend him. Either of these scenarios I could have lived with preferably the former. I like what Bronson brings to the table but knowing we have limited funds I hoped they would use this money towards a true ace or a big bat. Also don't like Bronson's outlook for the length of the contract (or Rolens extension either but that is another topic). #5 - Get Aroldis into the rotation either in Louisville or Cincy, preferably the former until ready for the latter. I pretty much knew how this was gonna shake, well at least the possibility crossed my mind that they would not re-sign Arthur and act like "man now we have to use Aroldis in the pen". #6 - Get a good reliable defensive SS who could also hit a little at the top of the lineup. Again Jason Bartlett in my mind should have been their main target. Bartlett wasn't ideal but the closest thing to it that also happened to be available. They got a run down (much worse IMO than OCab) old guy to back up a run down young guy. #7 - Re-sign Rhodes or at least get a draft pick out of the guy, they did neither. So they did virtually nothing that I would have liked to have seen. Though of the guys they went after I at least like what they came up with in Lewis and Hermida. I'm not thrilled about Willis but I know he was their like 5th option or so, tough to nail them to the wall on that. Grade D: with a shot to be a respectable C. EDIT I got a bit weary at the end of this earlier and after a boost of caffeine I will add the following. #8 - Extensions for the core. What Jocketty did with Bruce is nothing short of amazing and it's mighty huge for this franchise, especially in light of how Votto is squirming around about sticking around. Arroyo I wasn't for so I gotta keep that in mind, Cueto I think is a solid deal, a tad risky but a deal I think they probably should have done. And although Votto was gonna be here anyway it appears to me that signing him to what he should likely be making in all fairness is part of the strategy to get Votto to perhaps feel a little better about signing down the road, otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever. So for that I gotta give them credit for trying to keep the 2 key foundation players in house for the long haul. Grade C __________________ 2008 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2009 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2010 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." --Woody Hayes Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 01-26-2011 at 11:16 AM. Reason: To add a thought

01-26-2011, 09:09 AM	#7
lollipopcurve Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Shelburne Falls, MA Posts: 9,482	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? B The Bruce contract is huge. Cueto's deal looks like a good one too. Zero young talent sacrificed. They're putting/keeping the pieces in place for a sustained run. I would have liked to see them get Greinke, but in the end I don't think they could have beat the Milwaukee offer without shooting themselves in the foot. __________________ "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

01-26-2011, 09:15 AM	#8
bucksfan2 Waitin til next year Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 9,618	Re: What Grade Would You Give The Reds Offseason? B The Reds weren't going to replace or upgrade 1b, 2b, 3b, CF, RF, and P. I didn't expect them to do anything in that area. What I liked The extensions of Votto, Bruce, Cueto, and Arroyo. Votto because it avoids any kind of nasty arbitration and gives the Reds stress free years to work out a long term deal or trade. The Lewis, Hermedia, and Willis signing. Low risk who should provide more production out of LF than last season. The Ramon Hernandez signing. No need to change much of anything with Mes and Grandal on the horizon. The Renteria signing. If he plays SS and 3b there should be an upgrade over Cabrera/Janish at SS and he should provide a more reliable solution at 3b than Cairo. What I didn't like No trades. Alonso still remains in the fold. The pitching staff is 6-7 deep and everyone remains in the fold. IMO that could have been used to get an impact bat.