Here Is Your Blockbuster

[Krusty]

Wandy Rodriguez and Hunter Pence to the Reds for Edison Volquez, Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier and Paul Janish.

Think it would work?

[Tom Servo]

That would be a terrible deal for Houston.

[Caveat Emperor]

Ed Wade would be committed by family members if he agreed to that kind of deal -- provided he wasn't shot on the way to his car by a group of angry fans.

[camisadelgolf]

Look at it like this: Hunter Pence is Houston's Jay Bruce. He's a guy they want to build the team around and not someone they want to trade for prospects. Houston already has a Paul Janish in Tommy Manzella. They already have a Yonder Alonso in Brett Wallace. And Edinson Volquez is practically a throw-in at this stage in his career. This trade proposal makes absolutely no sense for Houston.

[Brutus]

That's a bad fantasy baseball trade.

[Krusty]

If you offered Heisey, Volquez, Frazier and Alonso for Rodriguez and Pence, that would work?

[Brutus]

Typically teams won't trade their two best players in the same trade if they're even willing to trade them both. You'd get much, much more by trading them separately than together.

[Red Leader]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Typically teams won't trade their two best players in the same trade if they're even willing to trade them both. You'd get much, much more by trading them separately than together.

True dat.

Also, if the Astros traded Rodriguez and Pence for Heisey, Volquez, Frazier and Alonso they might not win more than 20 games the remainder of the season. That's a really, really bad deal for Houston. Like so bad I don't think it'd even be considered.

[oneupper]

Houston does that deal if you take Carlos Lee also.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Wandy Rodriguez and Hunter Pence to the Reds for Edison Volquez, Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier and Paul Janish.

Think it would work?

I think Houston would want alot more.

[Spitball]

Krusty, I thought you always called them "slobberknockers." That was more fun.

[Krusty]

The Reds would have control of both players beyond this season. With Stubbs and Bruce set in the outfielder, any outfield prospect at Triple A should be made available in trade for Pence. As for Rodriguez, Volquez and another pitching prospect would be a fair deal because Volquez is needed a ticket out of town and a change of scenery.

Find out who is Rolen's successor and keep him. Make everyone else available. Keep one of the two catching prospects especially with Hanigan signed for two more years. Make the other one available.

Bill Bergesch once said he was reluctant to trade the crown jewels and got him fired as GM. It took the Stillwell for Jackson deal to get the Reds to the World Series. Fast forward and Jocketty needs to realize you can't keep all the crown jewels. Trade the excess and get those key players to get you in the playoffs. To have control over them beyond this season is an added plus.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Look at it like this: Hunter Pence is Houston's Jay Bruce. He's a guy they want to build the team around and not someone they want to trade for prospects. Houston already has a Paul Janish in Tommy Manzella. They already have a Yonder Alonso in Brett Wallace. And Edinson Volquez is practically a throw-in at this stage in his career. This trade proposal makes absolutely no sense for Houston.

He may be Houston's Bruce but he ain't quite that good a player IMO, he certainly isn't as naturally talented so his ceiling isn't close. IMO he is as close or closer to Chris Heisey than Bruce. In fact I think we know Pence's ceiling and Heisey's may actually be higher as well. He is no doubt a more productive player right now and Heisey has a way to go yet but still..

But I do agree with your point it's not enough. We also need to remember that Ed Wade is a sucker for 5 toolers with monster ceilings. We'd probably get more mileage out of Hamilton and Yorman and the like. But for me Wandy and Pence would be down my list a few spots from ideal right now, so I'd wait and see what else I could do.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

He may be Houston's Bruce but he ain't quite that good a player IMO, he certainly isn't as naturally talented so his ceiling isn't close. IMO he is as close or closer to Chris Heisey than Bruce. In fact I think we know Pence's ceiling and Heisey's may actually be higher as well. He is no doubt a more productive player right now and Heisey has a way to go yet but still..

But I do agree with your point it's not enough. We also need to remember that Ed Wade is a sucker for 5 toolers with monster ceilings. We'd probably get more mileage out of Hamilton and Yorman and the like. But for me Wandy and Pence would be down my list a few spots from ideal right now, so I'd wait and see what else I could do.

I would say Bruce has the higher ceiling, and I would much rather have him over Pence moving forward, but other than home runs, Pence has outproduced Bruce on average in pretty much every way. I think you're either underestimating Pence's worth or overestimating Bruce's.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

I would say Bruce has the higher ceiling, and I would much rather have him over Pence moving forward, but other than home runs, Pence has outproduced Bruce on average in pretty much every way. I think you're either underestimating Pence's worth or overestimating Bruce's.

I don't believe Pence can hang on the defensive side and Bruce is an excellent baserunner (and the SB's aren't vastly different either even though Pence is speedier). Pence's arm is nothing special and Bruce's is a difference making arm, Pence may get to a few more balls but I don't think it's a big enough difference to make up for the arm. Beyond that all that is left is Pence hits for average better (.291 vs. .259) and their career OBP is but .08 difference and Pence has been in his prime for about 2-2 1/2 years now. I don't see that is close at all. Add in the fact Bruce still hasn't gotten close to 600 PA's but one time and Pence has 3 times, that's a big difference maker right there.

Defense: Bruce > Pence
Baserunning: Bruce = Pence (despite Jay having less speed this is close)
Batting Average: Pence > Bruce
Power: Bruce > Pence (even though Pence actually has more Homers at this point I think we know this without a doubt)
Discipline: Bruce > Pence

Power arm and Power bat set Jay apart and he'll outproduce Pence at the same ages IMO.