2011 Bengals Discussion

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

I was at the game yesterday as a Colts fan and I couldn't get over how few fans were there. The middle sections were maybe 1/2 full and the upper levels were I would guess maybe 3/4 full. Factor in there was a pretty good amount of Colts in attendance and it makes Cincy not appear to be as big of a football town as I thought they were.

You should know the reason why the attendance figures are what they are this year, and it has nothing to do about fans who don't like football. Cincinnati is a better football town than Indianapolis, and all you have to do to prove that is look how the fans have stuck with the Bengals for two decades of abject futility. Think Indy would do that? The Bengals seven-year sellout streak was snapped last year in the 4-12 season that broke the camel's back. Mike Brown has abused Cincinnati fans to no end and this year they're getting back at him.

That takes nothing away from this city's love for and passion for the Bengals and football.

[redsfandan]

Originally Posted by CTA513

and if it is then Marvins a little late to try and put him in line.

Marvin is just repeating the new company line: The problem is/was Palmer (NOT a certain owner). It's like an early xmass present for Mikey.

[Stray]

I kinda agree with Marvin. Carson was a huge part of the big problem we had last season. He was the one who said we should sign TO. He was the one who couldn't be a leader. He was the one who quit.

I'm all for ripping on Mike, but he's built a pretty decent team in recent years. Our defense has been near the top of the league in 2 of the last 3 years, our supporting cast was strong enough to lose our franchise QB and not only stay competitive, but get better. Look around the league at other teams and imagine them losing a franchise QB...it is or it would be hard for them to compete. Favre leaving Minny, Peyton being hurt, etc...

I like Dalton because has all of those intangibles, even if he doesn't have as big of an arm.

[redsfandan]

Originally Posted by Stray

I'm all for ripping on Mike, but he's built a pretty decent team in recent years. ...

All I'm gonna say before I head out is that I think you might be giving Mike a little too much credit.

[CTA513]

Chad was the one who was all about signing TO before Carson finally said something about it.

People should be happy Palmers gone since it resulted in Dalton being drafted, a new OC being brought in and the clown WRs being shipped off / not re-signed.

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by Reds/Flyers Fan

You should know the reason why the attendance figures are what they are this year, and it has nothing to do about fans who don't like football. Cincinnati is a better football town than Indianapolis, and all you have to do to prove that is look how the fans have stuck with the Bengals for two decades of abject futility. Think Indy would do that? The Bengals seven-year sellout streak was snapped last year in the 4-12 season that broke the camel's back. Mike Brown has abused Cincinnati fans to no end and this year they're getting back at him.

That takes nothing away from this city's love for and passion for the Bengals and football.

I agree Cincy is a better football town than Indy. This year alone there have been several articles on "The Indy Star" about how tickets for Colts games are incredibly easy to come by. This is just a few short years from the Colts playing in the SB. I just was suprised at the many empty seats that were at the game. Again, no question Cincy is a better football town than Indy, I just underestimated Cincy's football fandom.

[WMR]

No, you underestimated Mike Brown's ability to kill a fanbase's spirit.

[Stray]

Originally Posted by redsfandan

All I'm gonna say before I head out is that I think you might be giving Mike a little too much credit.

I'm not nominating him for owner or GM of the year or anything. I realize the coaches have a lot of say in our drafts/trades/FA signings. He is the one with the final say though, and the truth is we've had some really good drafts lately. If he's to blame for the busts and horrible signings, he has to be given some credit for our recent success.

Mike Zimmer is a really good defensive coordinator, but he also has a lot of really good players to work with.

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by WMR

No, you underestimated Mike Brown's ability to kill a fanbase's spirit.

Yep, the cynicism and disaffection towards Brown has finally reached a tipping point. The stadium lease, the lack of a desire to win (credit for Marvin for achieving mediocrity despite Brown) and no outward sign of contributing to the greater community has made him the most hated man in Cincinnati.

He's made millions off the backs of taxpayers and a loyal fan base. What does he do to thank the most loyal (renewing season ticket holders) for it? Issue a coupon for a free popcorn. Gee, thanks Mikey.

Before, winning now and then could cover up his stench. The fan base is wiser to it this time. And make no mistake, he's brought this upon himself.

[cincrazy]

Originally Posted by Stray

Why does going to a home game have to mean you're directly supporting Mike Brown?

If some people want to be miserable and wage their war against a bad owner that's their own business. Surely you have to understand that there's a lot of fans who like the team, appreciate the way they play and want to go see it in person. Football games are fun...they're even more fun when the team you're supporting is winning. There's nothing embarrassing about fans wanting to enjoy their Sunday afternoon.

There's nothing wrong with attending the game IMO. But on the flip side, just my opinion, I think NFL games in person suck. Unless you truly follow a great team, it just isn't worth it. the drive to and from the game sucks, the ticket prices suck, the tv timeouts suck, the price of the food at the game sucks. I don't even think the atmosphere is that great, it doesn't compare at all to an OSU game. It's just an overall underwhelming experience IMO, and I'd rather spend the day at home on the couch watching the game while surfing back and forth during tv timeouts.

[The Operator]

Meanwhile in California...

[CTA513]

Originally Posted by The Operator

Meanwhile in California...

he would still be in better shape then some Bengals

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

I'd have a lot more respect for him if he had made his demand, and when Brown showed he wasn't going to acquiesce, simply filed his retirement papers.

Palmer said he was going to retirez(if he wasn't traded), but what he's really done is hold out. Which is different. And the fact that he has continued to talk to Brown shows that he is just holding out, not retiring.

I haven't been following it that closely, but Palmer never "officially" retired, and is basically holding out? Hmmm. This made me look deeper, and I also didn't know they signed him to a contract extension that runs through 2014...

2012:$11.5M, 2013:$13M, 2014:$14M

So someone set me straight if wrong.....

If he had officially retired, meaning he sat out the 2012 season, the Bengals would still hold the rights to him because of the contract right? If so, would would that entail?

And as long as he holds out, the Bengals don't have to pay him. Is that correct?

To be honest... if I was another team GM that contract (money) would greatly discourage me from pursuing a 31 yr old QB with a gimpy knee and questionable elbow.

I understand Brown's reasoning behind his firm position that it's a "matter of principle".....

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68...ble-owner-says

"Carson signed a contract. He made a commitment. He gave his word," Brown said. "We relied on his word. We relied on his commitment. We expected him to perform here. He's going to walk away from his commitment. We aren't going to reward him for doing it."

Seems to me, if the above is true, that the Bengals have the upper hand on Palmer. Unless they can get something that is beneficial to the team I'd let him sit and rot. LOL

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by GAC

Seems to me, if the above is true, that the Bengals have the upper hand on Palmer. Unless they can get something that is beneficial to the team I'd let him sit and rot. LOL

At the bottom line, this is how I see it too. I think Palmer did the Bengals a favor long-term. Had he never done any of this, they probably never draft Dalton. And while Palmer in his prime was probably better than Dalton is currently, Palmer hasn't played nearly as well the last couple of seasons and I think Dalton will only get better.

At this point, the Bengals are better off for how things have transpired. They've gotten younger and they've gotten guys who are just going out and working hard. I respect Palmer for his principles, but I also think the Bengals are fine in the approach they're taking with him.

[redsfandan]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

At this point, the Bengals are better off for how things have transpired. They've gotten younger and they've gotten guys who are just going out and working hard. I respect Palmer for his principles, but I also think the Bengals are fine in the approach they're taking with him.

I realize that Mike, and some of the fans, are happy that Palmer is left in limbo not able to play. But, other than that feeling of revenge for being let down, I'm not sure this is really accomplishing anything and this might just be counterproductive. I'm not positive but if Carson were to report this year or next (highly unlikely but...) the Bengals might have a problem: What to do with a really expensive player that they don't want. I don't think they can stop him if he decides to report. Then the circus would just get started all over again. It's not like this is the first time they've had a disgruntled player. And I doubt this is gonna prevent it happening again. This probably isn't the kind of thing that makes the Bengals look good to future free agents either. Right now Palmer is only worth anything if he plays or is traded. The Bengals aren't going to play him. So trade him. Just wash your hands of the guy and be done with it. Trade him to the worst team you can if you want. If a team were to offer a mid round pick, even if it was in 2014, take it. If Mike were to trade him I'd be impressed because it would help him and the team not only by getting some extra pick years in the future but, more importantly, it would be one thing he could do to show that the circus has left town.

The Bengals have a good, young team. Be done with the stupid off field stuff and let the coaches do their job and the fans will eventually show up. Unfortunately, Mike Brown is just too hard headed to realize that sometimes it's more important to turn the page and move on. The problem is he thinks the team HAS moved on. But, as long as there's this off field stuff still hanging around he hasn't. Cincinnati deserves better than this. Cincinnati deserves a REAL NFL owner. Not one that is an embarrassment. Cincinnati deserves an owner that would say 'you don't want to help us win games that's fine cuz we only want players that want to help us win games' and THEN he'd let his gm, a REAL gm, trade the guy so the player has nothing to do with the team when it is making its way to the Super Bowl. Instead Cincinnati has to put up with this kind of stuff. Year after year after year. Maybe some people are happy with the prospect of Mike Brown keeping Carson Palmer in limbo. I'm tired of the circus. Cincinnati has become the one city where the circus never leaves. Yippee.