2011 Bengals Discussion

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by The Operator

I don't think I've seen this posted here already so thought I'd share. AJ and Dalton were miked up for the Colts game:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...module=HP11_cp

Dalton's leadership skills are just off the chart. Carson had none of those qualities. A stoic expression while standing as stiff as a statue on the sidelines was all you got from him. That, or the occasional screaming match with Chad. Such a refreshing change.

As Palmer's career with the Bengals went on, it seemed to me like he tended to pass on the role of keeping guys motivated and in line to the coaching staff. He may have worn the "C" on his chest, but he didn't act like much of a captain. Coaches can do that in practice, but the captain needs to do that on the field.

[bucksfan2]

Palmer quit on team last year

"At what point did Carson quit?" Lewis is quoted as saying, paraphrasing a reporter's question. "At some point last year he decided he didn't want to be here. This didn't happen at the end of the season. There was a point earlier on when he said, 'This isn't the place for me.' "

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/sports/29604019/...#ixzz1c0Rdrqk0

[RiverRat13]

I'm glad those guys are gone, but Marvin should just let it go.

[CTA513]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

I'm glad those guys are gone, but Marvin should just let it go.

Marvins all about putting his foot down once a player is gone.

[The Operator]

Marvin probably would have been a bit tougher on those guys had he thought that his owner would back him up on any of it. After bringing back Chris Henry and undermining Lewis' authority for the billionth time, he probably decided to just go with the flow.

As for Carson, that doesn't surprise me. It sure looked like he wasn't trying toward the end of last year. Carelessly throwing into triple coverages, making ridiculous decisions, even for him.

The guy really does not have the heart of a competitor.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by CTA513

Marvins all about putting his foot down once a player is gone.

Marvin's got a right to be a little PO'd over the whole thing. I'm glad he's telling it like it is

[CTA513]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Marvin's got a right to be a little PO'd over the whole thing. I'm glad he's telling it like it is

He has the right to be pissed, but maybe things wouldn't have gone how they have over the years if he actually stood up to the players when they were here and not after they left.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by The Operator

I don't think I've seen this posted here already so thought I'd share. AJ and Dalton were miked up for the Colts game:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-...module=HP11_cp

Dalton's leadership skills are just off the chart. Carson had none of those qualities. A stoic expression while standing as stiff as a statue on the sidelines was all you got from him. That, or the occasional screaming match with Chad. Such a refreshing change.

I love his leadership, but I especially love that there's seemingly a new attitude in the clubhouse. The guys on the roster aren't as jaded and have a fresh outlook on the team and situation. The Bengals needed a fresh start as much as Carson wanted one.

[medford]

Its in Marvin's best interst to tell his side of the story. Perhaps on his coaching resume that goes up on his tombstone one day, this is meerly a blib on the radar and he directs the current and future Bengals teams on toward regular playoff births. Or perhaps the team struggles to an 6-10 finish this year, and repeats the same next year and Son of Paul decides to pull the plug. It would help with his next employeer if his side of last year's slide was on the table before hand.

[redsfandan]

USAToday giving Dalton (and, to a lesser extent, Green) some pub:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...ure/50971660/1

I had forgotten what the bengals received for Chad. An extra 1st round pick (for Palmer) and 5th round pick (for Chad) in 2012 AND an extra 2nd round pick (or 1st for Palmer) and 6th round pick (for Chad) in 2013 is pretty sweet. Dalton is doing a good job of showing why you don't have to be one of the top picks at your position to make a difference. The connections to Marino (a Hall of Famer with a heck of a quick release) and (Slingin') Sammy Baugh (another HOF'er and one of the best qb's of the early NFL) were pretty cool too.

[HotCorner]

Don't forget the Bengals will also receive compensation pick(s) for the loss of Jonathan Joseph.

[redsfandan]

Originally Posted by HotCorner

Don't forget the Bengals will also receive compensation pick(s) for the loss of Jonathan Joseph.

Do ya know what they'll get for losing him?

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by redsfandan

Do ya know what they'll get for losing him?

Some folks are saying we'll get the highest comp available and that's a sandwich pick between the 3rd and 4th rds. I'm wondering if our signing of his replacement, Nate Clemens, will knock that down a rd or two. I hope not but we'll see. Some sites are so confident in a 3rd rd pick they're already saying things like we'll "get 9 picks in rds 1-3 in the next two drafts

[Redsfaithful]

I think it's based on the contract the FA receives, and Joseph got a huge one. The FAs the Bengals signed do matter, but Clements, Lawson, and Howard put together aren't making what Joseph is making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ensatory_picks

Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor.

[MWM]

Man, there are some serious over-reactions to all kinds of things in this thread. First of all, that was Marvin's perception, which could be influenced by him just trying to save face. Marvin decided to stay, but I don't think it was because he wanted to be in Cincinnati as much as its a pretty safe job with Mike Brown as his boss and there's a good chance he wouldn't be in high demand elsewhere. A head coaching gig in the NFL is a pretty good thing to have. Don't think Marvin is somehow objective in this. Carson sure didn't look like he had quit against San Diego last year. It's all a crock of BS if you ask me. I still don't blame Carson one bit for not wanting to play in Cincy anymore. He possibly could have handled it better but I can understand why he was so miserable here.

And I can't believe people are making judgments based on last Sunday when he had 3 days of practice after not having any training camp or anything else. If you think he won't be better, either later this year or next year, you're just not thinking clearly. He's not an elite QB but to think he's going to be a bad one is believing what you want to believe.

I also think people are WAY ahead of themselves on Dalton. I love what the guy has done and the intangibles he seems to bring with him, but all these same things were said about Palmer once upon a time, and Palmer had MUCH more talent. Let's give him a few years in this organization and see how much leadership he has. Jon Kitna has great leadership skills, I doubt anyone wants him back.

I'll readily admit that I'm biased when it comes to the Bengals...biased by cynicism. I'll continue to root for them and hope they turn into a team capable of winning in the playoffs, but I've seen this movie before. In the past 20 years, this same cycle where something or someone comes along and everyone thinks "this is different" and start to believe the franchise has turned the corner and has a bright future has happened at least 4-5 times. I don't see how this is any different. It's not hard to put together a team that is close to winning. Anyone can do that every once in a while. It's difficult to take that next step to having an organization that can seriously compete for a super bowl. I don't believe Mike Brown has any clue how to get there. He can get them close and do enough to provide optimism, but he'll never get them over the edge. Doesn't mean I won't be a fan and hope for something better, but I'm not going to invest in any kind of belief that it will like a lot of people are doing.