Jose Bautista: Clean or PED User?

[Johnny Footstool]

Would Bautista be able to purchase the same PEDs in Cincinnati that he is currently using in Toronto? That would be a big factor in the deal, I would think.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Would Bautista be able to purchase the same PEDs in Cincinnati that he is currently using in Toronto? That would be a big factor in the deal, I would think.

So you have proof that he is doing so?

Sorry, but simply because a guy gets really good out of nowhere doesn't mean he is cheating. There is absolutely NOTHING out there that links him to anything of the sort other than people thinking he has to be.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

So you have proof that he is doing so?

Sorry, but simply because a guy gets really good out of nowhere doesn't mean he is cheating. There is absolutely NOTHING out there that links him to anything of the sort other than people thinking he has to be.

As someone who usually believes certain players are doing illegal things, my PEDar doesn't go off with Bautista.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

So you have proof that he is doing so?

Sorry, but simply because a guy gets really good out of nowhere doesn't mean he is cheating. There is absolutely NOTHING out there that links him to anything of the sort other than people thinking he has to be.

This x100. Trying to accuse players with no hint of evidence outside of stats is the worst kind of speculation.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Superdude

This x100. Trying to accuse players with no hint of evidence outside of stats is the worst kind of speculation.

Guys at 29 years old don't naturally go from hitting homers in 2.8% of their plate appearances to 8% of their plate appearances and boost slugging from .410 for their career to over .630.

That's probably not natural. We saw this a lot in the PED era, and for a long time, people assumed the best and that it was unfair to speculate. As it turns out, it was perfectly fair to speculate because if it walked like a duck, quacked like a duck... it was probably a duck. And further, it wound up being a duck, usually.

[Caveat Emperor]

Thing is -- even if he is using (which I doubt, at this point) he obviously has found a way to do it without getting caught. So, any risk of drop-off in production is probably negligible.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Guys at 29 years old don't naturally go from hitting homers in 2.8% of their plate appearances to 8% of their plate appearances and boost slugging from .410 for their career to over .630.

That's probably not natural. We saw this a lot in the PED era, and for a long time, people assumed the best and that it was unfair to speculate. As it turns out, it was perfectly fair to speculate because if it walked like a duck, quacked like a duck... it was probably a duck. And further, it wound up being a duck, usually.

I'm not up for another extended argument about this topic. If he doesn't look any stronger than he did four years ago, what exactly are these steroids doing to his body?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Superdude

I'm not up for another extended argument about this topic. If he doesn't look any stronger than he did four years ago, what exactly are these steroids doing to his body?

There is a lot more to power than 'looking' stronger or being overly muscular. Power is about hand-eye coordination, bat speed, energy, being sharp (and not fatigued), feeling healthy as well as bone density and muscle mass.

Any number of these factors in total could trigger a dramatic increase in production. But these things don't typically happen naturally at 29 out of the blue.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

Guys at 29 years old don't naturally go from hitting homers in 2.8% of their plate appearances to 8% of their plate appearances and boost slugging from .410 for their career to over .630.

That's probably not natural. We saw this a lot in the PED era, and for a long time, people assumed the best and that it was unfair to speculate. As it turns out, it was perfectly fair to speculate because if it walked like a duck, quacked like a duck... it was probably a duck. And further, it wound up being a duck, usually.

It has been well-documented that he drastically changed his approach at the plate before last season and it paid off tremendously. Bautista doesn't have the physical appearance of a PEDs user, nor did he suddenly bulk up or improve his strength and athleticism between 2009 and 2010. So I think it is inappropriate to suggest he has been cheating.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

It has been well-documented that he drastically changed his approach at the plate before last season and it paid off tremendously. Bautista doesn't have the physical appearance of a PEDs user, nor did he suddenly bulk up or improve his strength between 2009 and 2010. So I think it is inappropriate to suggest he has been cheating.

HGH by all accounts would not have the same appearance that pure anabolic steroids would.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

There is a lot more to power than 'looking' stronger or being overly muscular. Power is about hand-eye coordination, bat speed, energy, being sharp (and not fatigued), feeling healthy as well as bone density and muscle mass.

Any number of these factors in total could trigger a dramatic increase in production. But these things don't typically happen naturally at 29 out of the blue.

I understand there's secondary benefits, such as energy, but I refuse to believe that anything beyond marginal improvement can be achieved without making the obvious increase in muscular strength. Feeling peppy in August didn't make Bautista a 50 homerun hitter.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

HGH by all accounts would not have the same appearance that pure anabolic steroids would.

Forget the huge supposition that Bautista is actually using HGH, the notion that HGH is an effective PED to begin with is highly controversial.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by jojo

Forget the huge supposition that Bautista is actually using HGH, the notion that HGH is an effective PED to begin with is highly controversial.

No it's really not. But your position is that an anti-doping agent, who's job it is to downplay steroids and performance-enhancing drugs, would be outwardly honest about whether or not it's a drug that would impact performance. So there's no sense in having that debate.

After all, ask yourself: if the anti-doping establishment governing olympic and amateur sports didn't find HGH to help performance, why is it banned?

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

No it's really not. But your position is that an anti-doping agent, who's job it is to downplay steroids and performance-enhancing drugs, would be outwardly honest about whether or not it's a drug that would impact performance. So there's no sense in having that debate.

After all, ask yourself: if the anti-doping establishment governing olympic and amateur sports didn't find HGH to help performance, why is it banned?

My position is pretty simple.....side with science and the science doesn't support your claims.

Why arent Olympic athletes allowed to use HGH? Because the governing body doesn't want 8 year old Chinese gymnasts being given them.... again this debate has been had and your assertion that HGH is a PED for adult baseball players is not supported by the science.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by jojo

My position is pretty simple.....side with science and the science doesn't support your claims.

Why arent Olympic athletes allowed to use HGH? Because the governing body doesn't want 8 year old Chinese gymnasts being given them.... again this debate has been had and your assertion that HGH is a PED for adult baseball players is not supported by the science.

Science does, you just are picking and choosing which science you want to be evidence of support.