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08-06-2011, 03:00 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Bush Leagues
Posts: 8,420
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Will Walt Pay for a Closer
Assuming Jocketty declines CoCo's option -- he is 37 with a declining k-rate, are we going to be in the market for a big closer?
Here's the list from MLBtraderumors.com: Heath Bell (34) Jonathan Broxton (28) Matt Capps (28) Frank Francisco (32) Brad Lidge (35) - $12.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout Joe Nathan (37) - $12.5MM club option with a $2MM buyout Jonathan Papelbon (31) Jon Rauch (33) - $3.75MM club option with a $250K buyout Francisco Rodriguez (30) Rafael Soriano (32) - $11MM player option or a $1.5MM buyout Jose Valverde (34) - $9MM club option, no buyout Papelbon and K-Rod jump out but will cost big money. I'm guessing the consesus on here will be to not pay big money for "70 innings". But the consesus seems to also lean to sticking Chapman in the rotation. Of course there are always ways to get creative, as long as it doesn't involve Masset. Is Lecure a sleeper?
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The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle |
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08-06-2011, 03:04 PM
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#2 |
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Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,913
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
I sure as heck hope not. I agree that Chapman should be given a chance to start. But in my mind, closer is not a position, it's a label. Frankly, I don't care who gets the saves. I just want to make sure the bullpen has at least 4 very solid relievers to use in close games.
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Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. |
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08-06-2011, 03:06 PM
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#3 |
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High five!
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 6,765
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
I hope he pays for an opener.
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"Bring on Rod Stupid!" |
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08-06-2011, 03:30 PM
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#4 | ||
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Mr. Underhill
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Manchester, KY
Posts: 441
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
Quote:
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08-06-2011, 04:07 PM
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#5 |
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Maple SERP
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,485
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
Didn't we once project Bill Bray as a potential future closer?
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This is the Cal Ripkin Jr. of typos. If you ask me to join your fantasy baseball league and I select Legolas in the first round, don't be angry at me. It's not my fault I've read up on the players and you haven't. |
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08-06-2011, 04:30 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 9,228
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
Paying big dollars for a closer is the worst investment a small market team can make.
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08-06-2011, 04:40 PM
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#7 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Bush Leagues
Posts: 8,420
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
Quote:
Saves are a crappy statistic but I don't think closers are overrated. Champs always have them. But our opinions of closers is irrelevant. Most GM's are not going to start the year without tabbing someone as a closer. I
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The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle |
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08-06-2011, 04:49 PM
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#8 | |
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Stat Wanker Hodiernus
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 14,913
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
Quote:
The question isn't whether or not we should have high quality relievers at the back end of the pen. It's whether or not Walt should pay a lot of money to somebody who has accrued "saves" in his career. "Closers" routinely get paid double what an equally effective, equally valuable set up man gets. So if Walt decides to spend money to improve our relief corps, I hope it's not on a closer -- because you end up spending just as much on the label as you do on the arm.
__________________
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. |
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08-06-2011, 04:56 PM
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#9 |
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thirsty and miserable
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NJ/NY
Posts: 5,391
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
I'd be interested to see if a guy like Nathan could be had on the cheap. Otherwise I'd look for a middle relief guy to convert into a closer.
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"Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement." |
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08-06-2011, 05:13 PM
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I thought you'd be bigger
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Green Country
Posts: 2,631
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
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08-06-2011, 05:14 PM
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#11 |
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Greatness In The Making
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 4,078
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
I have a feeling they will decline CoCo's option only to bring him back at a lower price
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"I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans 2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L 2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L 2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L 2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L |
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08-06-2011, 05:17 PM
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#12 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,352
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
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"Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that." |
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08-06-2011, 05:22 PM
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#13 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 8,625
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
I find Broxton intriguing. He's had an awful year, but that may bode well for his asking price. Prior to 2011, he's been absolute stud. One would think he is fixable, but I don't know.
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08-06-2011, 05:28 PM
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#14 | |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,692
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
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Champs sometimes have closers who are untested or inexperienced. Or bad. Wainwright took over for a injured Izzy and closed out the world series. Kim in 2001 horribly blew 2 games in the world series, but Arizona won anyway. |
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08-06-2011, 08:44 PM
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#15 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Bush Leagues
Posts: 8,420
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Re: Will Walt Pay for a Closer
Quote:
I'm not a fan of the Lee Smith/Jeff Reardon-type save-mongers. But I'm a huge fan of dominating closers. During regulation they lift teams above their pythag then dominate the post-season play and finally deliver Championships.
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The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle |
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