Huge Offseason Trade Is Coming

[FireDusty]

I was hesitant to even allow this into my brain, but it's obvious what needs to happen.

The Reds need to make a shocking trade this offseason, but contrary to what most think, it will take 2 players to get Bautista.

The Reds answer nearly every offensive and salary structure question by trading Drew Stubbs & Joey Votto to the Blue Jays for Bautista.

Toronto won't accept a Votto for Bautista and I don't blame them. They have salary certainty with Bautista, they would have none for Votto.

I absolutely gaurantee you one thing for absolutely certain. Dave Sappelt is the leadoff hitter this club has needed and he is staring us right in the face. He does something that we've forgotten can happen from the leadoff position........he puts the bat on the baseball.

Alonzo, if given 162 games at first base next year will put up very similar numbers to Votto at the same age Votto did. Give Alonzo 2 years & he's maybe winning an MVP.

Votto ain't staying here. His valaue is at an all time high. We have his replacement, and we have Stubbs replacement to.

Any Reds fan mad about Votto being traded, will have no problem with it after watching Bautista play 81 games in this wiffle ball stadium.

Problem is.....as good as Votto is.....you ain't gettin' Bautista one for one. Not with his age, production and salary certainty.

If the Reds want to get better, they have 2 players that can be used to bring in a 50 homerun bat and free up first base for a young man who is 23 years old and can flat out rake.

[swingbelly]

Well...if they trade Votto didn't Yonder Alonso come up as a first baseman?

[bubbachunk]

You are undervaluing Stubbs a ton imo. The only way I do that deal is if the Jays then add a solid prospect perhaps.

[Who Dey Time]

Originally Posted by bubbachunk

You are undervaluing Stubbs a ton imo. The only way I do that deal is if the Jays then add a solid prospect perhaps.

This. More than likely I think a Votto-Heisey for Bautista is a viable trade. Who knows if a Cincinnati-Toronto trade was ever discussed though.

[FireDusty]

Originally Posted by bubbachunk

You are undervaluing Stubbs a ton imo. The only way I do that deal is if the Jays then add a solid prospect perhaps.

A ton?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/29611/drew-stubbs

20 Homers, 40 Steals.......sounds good.......good defense......sounds good......209 strikesouts.....and .391 slugging %.........sucks.

Also, Stubbs will be 27 years old next opening day. I don't see the light going on for a guy who is 27 years old. Major League Players, save for only a handful, who have not arrived by 27 years old........normally never arrive.

Stubbs was horribly mishandled here. He was made to be a lead off hitter just because he's fast. If he stays, he's a rally busting 6th hitter who will hit 20 to 25 homeruns, steal 30 to 40 bases, and strikeout 175 times a year.

I just don't see the 110 strikouts a year, 30 homeruns, 30 steals, .375 OBA, .500 slugging % coming from Drew Stubbs.

Dave Sappelt is a better offensive player than Drew Stubbs. He may never hit 20 homeruns, but he'll hit the baseball & it will take Sappelt 2 years to strike out as much as Stubbs does in one year.

Defense is important, but you just can't have guys that strike out 200 times. You just cant do it.

[Krawhitham]

.222 /w 2 HR since the break, maybe the Bautista bubble has burst

[Krawhitham]

Originally Posted by swingbelly

Well...if they trade Votto didn't Yonder Alonso come up as a first baseman?

he is below average at 1st base, he sees himself as a 3rd baseman

[Vottomatic]

I think this is as good as it gets with Stubbs and Bruce. Might be the right time to trade them before the rest of the league finds out they're "average" or worse.

[bubbachunk]

You can get hung up on strikeouts but I sure will not. Stubbs has had a bit of dip in his slug% this year but I expect that to trend back to what he did the first ~1.5 years, meaning he is a gold glove centerfielder putting up a .750+ OPS. Since when is that average??

Drew Stubbs to me is essentially Mike Cameron minus the possibly roids.

[bounty37h]

Originally Posted by Krawhitham

.222 /w 2 HR since the break, maybe the Bautista bubble has burst

Thats what I have been saying, expect him to come back down towards Earth/his normal career numbers. Still think he is good, but also feel he has been hyped higly lately, might overpay for that reason more than actual production.

[Tuff Nut]

When this trade was first floated around here, I was all for it. BUT, the morethought put into it, I say pass. Not that I wouldn't trade Votto. Just not for a Bautista, and right now I'd rather trade Bruce and/or Stubbs, and still not for Bautista. This team is in dire need of another TOR pitcher. Cueto is showing his due; Leake is a legit 2a, imo, he has been the most consistant all year and will continue to improve; Willis is showing he still has something to prove, and is a great vet presence in the dugout.(anyone else, besides me, take some notice that Chapman has really controlled himself on the mound, and just looks very powerful, and in command, since D-Train has been promoted, I really think Dontrelle has been a huge influence on this whole team...he just seems to have that attitude, imo) Arroyo is pitching better lately, and one could wonder about his mono epidemic being the reason for his late resurgence. I'll agree, but then will say he should be shut down, and recharged for next season. Bailey has had a very up and down year, and his next couple of games should dictate his future with this team. He is still young, and if shows promise, keep him, but then, he if possibly a key cog for bringing in another TOR. To me he is most tradable of the SPs.
Team Bailey with Bruce and/or Stubbs, plus a Hamilton(I feel Cozart can hang around awhile), Duran or whatever, and go for King Felix.
The call-ups, so far have really produced, and need to be getting their due time. Lets see what they can do the rest of the year, and make adjustments accordingly.

[smixsell]

Originally Posted by bubbachunk

You are undervaluing Stubbs a ton imo. The only way I do that deal is if the Jays then add a solid prospect perhaps.

Spot on, but i wouldn't trade Stubbs for just any prospect. Subbs is a future (near future) all star centerfielder.

[smixsell]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

I think this is as good as it gets with Stubbs and Bruce. Might be the right time to trade them before the rest of the league finds out they're "average" or worse.

No way.

Look at what Stubbs and Bruce did last year when they had Edmunds on the bench to talk about their approach and mechanics between at bats. They both went from "almost totally lost" to "locked in and hanging out line drives to all fields" while Edmunds was here. You could see them both talking with Edmunds between at bats and see Edmonds demonstrating mechanics.

Ahhhhh, what Stubbs and Bruce (and some of our other young players) would be like with a decent major league hitting coach. As much as I think the guy is a tool, I'd have Edmonds here as a hitting coach to replace Jacoby in a heartbeat. Come to think of it, I'd have almost anybody here to replace Jacoby in an instant.

[bubbachunk]

Stubbs showing his pop yet again when he does not have to hit leadoff, it is incredibly obvious he is miscast in that role.

[SidneySlicker]

Originally Posted by smixsell

Spot on, but i wouldn't trade Stubbs for just any prospect. Subbs is a future (near future) all star centerfielder.

Not sure how you can say that. Stubbs has always had strikeout issues and at best he's a .250 25hr and is gonna probably strikeout 160-180. He'd have to cut his strikeouts by probably a third to sniff the all star game.