What QUALITY starting pitchers are obtainable by trade or free agency?

[Vottomatic]

I think we can all agree that this current Reds offense is good enough with the potential to be better next year as guys mature and reach their potential. Health is always an issue.

Starting pitching is really what this team needs. I'd even say the bullpen needs bolstering.

I've started this thread for some potential deals that could be made. Obviously the Reds can't acquire Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Lincecum, Kershaw, Sabathia, etc. But what teams would consider a trade for their quality starters? Any ideas? The season is over and this could make for some fun discussion.

[brm7675]

I just don't see anyone out there via trade being available that would be a significant upgrade over what we have and what we would have to part with. I think the path to take is to find a quality hitter.

[Krawhitham]

the offense not being consistent is the problem

they will score 42 runs in 4 games then 15 runs for 10 games. They average 4+ runs a game but they go 6-8 over the 14 games


The Reds have had 89 quality starts this season. They also had 89 QS last season

Most it not all the Reds pitching issues are Arroyo & EV. Without those two the team ERA is 3.87. Arroyo has a good chance of bouncing back (he has an offseason regimen set up to try to regain his fastball) , EV will not be a Red next season

[Stray]

The team just strikes out too much, that makes it hard to be consistent. It isn't just Stubbs either, it's up and down the lineup. I don't see that changing.

For the right deal I could see Tampa trading Shields. We'd have to give up some good talent though.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by Krawhitham

the offense not being consistent is the problem

they will score 42 runs in 4 games then 15 runs for 10 games. They average 4+ runs a game but they go 6-8 over the 14 games


The Reds have had 89 quality starts this season. They also had 89 QS last season

Most it not all the Reds pitching issues are Arroyo & EV. Without those two the team ERA is 3.87. Arroyo has a good chance of bouncing back (he has an offseason regimen set up to try to regain his fastball) , EV will not be a Red next season

Good stat.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by Stray

The team just strikes out too much, that makes it hard to be consistent. It isn't just Stubbs either, it's up and down the lineup. I don't see that changing.

For the right deal I could see Tampa trading Shields. We'd have to give up some good talent though.

I wouldn't mind having Shields, but to me TB would be sheer idiots to deal him. You don't find pitchers like him that often and at a reasonable contract.

[Vottomatic]

I read somewhere, a good analysis that said Tampa has some good starting pitching in their minors, and that management considers and favors Price and Hellickson as their top 2 starters. Davis, Niemann and Moore are all young up and comers, and Shields is about 30 years old. They have 7 players arbitration eligible. They have options on Shields for '12 thru '14 but he is about to become expensive. They also have positional needs to fill that Shields could help them obtain. Upton is about to become expensive as he is arb eligible. They also have options on Shoppach, Zobrist. Longoria, Wade Davis that all amount to pay increases. Their $42M payroll is about to balloon $10 or $20M and ownership wants to keep it down while filling their holes in the lineup.

Look for Shields to be dealt in the offseason unless the Rays can't get fair return.

[FireDusty]

I say we make it known that Votto & Stubbs are available and see what becomes available.

Someone might be foolish enough to think Stubbs is going to figure it out and partnering a bona fide stud in Votto with a bona fide dud in Stubbs might net us someone like David Price.

I feel like Alonzo at first would give you somewhere between 90 and 100 RBI. If you consider that you may be able to add a starter that allows 1 fewer run per start than the slot he replaces, then that is 33 fewer runs you have to make up. The difference between Votto & Alonzo then becomes a wash.

Then, you Give Heisey & Sappelt left & center.

Those 2 would be less defensively, but both of them combined would equal the strike out total of Stubbs.

If Heisey were just given left field like Gomes was and allowed to have 600 at bats......30 homers.

[brm7675]

Problem with trading Votto is you will never get equal value in return since any team getting him knows they won't have him that long.

[texasdave]

Arroyo has a good chance of bouncing back (he has an offseason regimen set up to try to regain his fastball).

There is this guy who goes by the name of Father Time. He also has this off-season regimen. It is a very effective regimen. Works just about every time. Good luck, Bronson.

[redsfan1995]

Erik Bedard (33)
Mark Buehrle (33)
Chris Capuano (33)
Bruce Chen (35)
Bartolo Colon (39)
Aaron Cook (33) - $11MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Kyle Davies (28)
Doug Davis (36)
Ryan Dempster (35) - $14MM player option, no buyout
Zach Duke (29) - $5.5MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jeff Francis (30)
Freddy Garcia (36)
Jon Garland (32) - $8MM club option with a $500K buyout
Aaron Harang (34) - $5MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Rich Harden (30)
Livan Hernandez (37)
Hisashi Iwakuma (31)
Edwin Jackson (28)
Kenshin Kawakami (37)
Scott Kazmir (28) - $13.5MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
Hiroki Kuroda (37)
Rodrigo Lopez (36)
Paul Maholm (30) - $9.75MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jason Marquis (33)
Kevin Millwood (37)
Sergio Mitre (31)
Roy Oswalt (34) - $16MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout
Brad Penny (34)
Oliver Perez (30)
Joel Pineiro (33)
C.C. Sabathia (31) - may opt out of remaining four years, $92MM
Javier Vazquez (35)
Tsuyoshi Wada (31)
Adam Wainwright (30) - $10MM*vesting option for '12, $12MM for '13*
Tim Wakefield (45)
Chien-Ming Wang (32)
Brandon Webb (33)
Dontrelle Willis (30)
C.J. Wilson (31)

[redsfan1995]

the list i just posted are all the 2012 free agent starting pitchers.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by texasdave

There is this guy who goes by the name of Father Time. He also has this off-season regimen. It is a very effective regimen. Works just about every time. Good luck, Bronson.

If Bronson was a power pitcher I would agree, but he is not. As Jamie Moyer showed, with the style of pitcher Bronson is, he could have a very nice career into his 40's.

[texasdave]

Originally Posted by brm7675

If Bronson was a power pitcher I would agree, but he is not. As Jamie Moyer showed, with the style of pitcher Bronson is, he could have a very nice career into his 40's.

People always bring this up. And for what reason I have no idea. If Bronson really is another Jamie Moyer, and he is not, then why did losing 1 MPH on his fastball so negatively affecting his pitching? And why is Bronson setting up a regimen already and being so gung-ho in his approach to get that 1 MPH on his fastball back? Good questions, I know. Obviously, Bronson feels he needs that extra bit of oomph on his cheese. Maybe you should get in touch with him and tell him he doesn't need to relax and enjoy his off-season. Tell him that he is another Jamie Moyer and relax. That will work.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by redsfan1995

Erik Bedard (33) - way overrated
Mark Buehrle (33) - Sox would never part with him
Chris Capuano (33) - Not that much better then what we have
Bruce Chen (35) - Really?
Bartolo Colon (39) - Please stop
Aaron Cook (33) - $11MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Kyle Davies (28)
Doug Davis (36)
Ryan Dempster (35) - $14MM player option, no buyout
Zach Duke (29) - $5.5MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jeff Francis (30)
Freddy Garcia (36)
Jon Garland (32) - $8MM club option with a $500K buyout
Aaron Harang (34) - $5MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Rich Harden (30)
Livan Hernandez (37)
Hisashi Iwakuma (31)
Edwin Jackson (28)
Kenshin Kawakami (37)
Scott Kazmir (28) - $13.5MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
Hiroki Kuroda (37)
Rodrigo Lopez (36)
Paul Maholm (30) - $9.75MM club option with a $750K buyout
Jason Marquis (33)
Kevin Millwood (37)
Sergio Mitre (31)
Roy Oswalt (34) - $16MM mutual option with a $2MM buyout
Brad Penny (34)
Oliver Perez (30)
Joel Pineiro (33)
C.C. Sabathia (31) - may opt out of remaining four years, $92MM
Javier Vazquez (35)
Tsuyoshi Wada (31)
Adam Wainwright (30) - $10MM*vesting option for '12, $12MM for '13*
Tim Wakefield (45)
Chien-Ming Wang (32)
Brandon Webb (33)
Dontrelle Willis (30)
C.J. Wilson (31)

There isn't 1 pitcher on that list that I would give up much for..