Where was the HUGE OUTCRY last year...

[brm7675]

I don't remember reading many posts here that the Reds should dump Drew Stubbs and Bronson Arroyo at the end of last season, yet now many here want both gone.....what happened? Well lets see Bronson was diagnosed in ST with Mono that is something that doesn't go away quickly and causes fatigue in those with it. This past summer was one of the hottest on record in which Bronson took the ball every time and did his best. And yes he had a bad season, so NOW we must dump him?

As for Stubbs, who has been in pro ball all of 5 seasons with this being his second on the pro level and where were the yells for him to be let go after last season? Yes he has 200+ strike outs and his power numbers are down. What players early in their careers don't struggle?

I think both Bronson and Stubbs can have much better seasons next year and be keys to this team winning the division and allowed, can contribute for a number years down the road.

[nux fan]

you must have clocks in your house that do not move forward, arroyo is old and stubbs got worse

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by nux fan

you must have clocks in your house that do not move forward, arroyo is old and stubbs got worse

OMG...Bronson will be 35 next year, is a off speed pitcher and is done? Stubbs had a drop off his 2nd year which many players do.

[Vottomatic]

Arroyo has a good track record overall. He also has a Moyer-type of arm that will probably allow him to pitch well into his 40's if he desires. Because of his track record and pitching style, I'm willing to give Arroyo the benefit of the doubt.

When it comes to position players, I go by my gut feeling. I get an impression of a guy, and unless he makes adjustments that change my mind, I pretty much stick with that impression/gut feeling.

Drew Stubbs has not impressed me at all, I'm sorry to say. Defensively, yes. He has made some plays and throws that have impressed me. Offensively......no. He looks like he's guessing at the plate. He takes alot of called strike 3's, and takes alot of down the middle strikes on top of that. Then he'll swing at one of those stupid pitches out of the strike zone. I'm just not impressed with his hitting IQ. Great hitters have a plan, have discipline, and a good eye for balls and strikes. Votto is like that. Stubbs reminds me of a Reggie Sanders-lite. Strikes out more than Sanders, but teases you with his speed and potential power. And I've seen no adjustments or improvements from Stubbs at the plate.

Could I be wrong? Certainly.

I was down on Bruce last year but was willing to see what he gave us this year. I think Bruce is streaky. He's really good for awhile, and average to below average for long stretches too. Dude needs consistency and needs to get smart as to how he is being pitched. Hard to complain about 30+ HR"s, and he's close to 100 rbi, even if his average is sub-par for me. If he became a .280 hitter with 35 HR's, 110 rbi, and came up with more clutch hits, then I'll be happy.

I was hoping Stubbs would be our future leadoff man. He sucks at leadoff and sucks everywhere else in the lineup. I'd trade Stubbs while he still has value, and still have people like you salivating over his potential. In a few years, he will be written off as a coulda been.

[brm7675]

I agree with Stubbs, but given his limited experience do you not think he will learn? Now if his numbers stay similar next season with no sign of any improvement then I will begin to wonder if he can handle this game, but hitting a baseball on the major league level were even the "greats" hit in the mid .300's, I willing to give this kid some time to "learn the art of hitting" before writing him off. If the Reds had a much better option available I might be open to going that route, but right now, unless something happens in the offseason...we don't.

[nux fan]

heisey is way better thanstubbs for an outfield positon, give it up already with stubbs are you his next of kin

[IWasBornInCincy]

Where was the Outcry? They made the playoffs one time in 16 seasons. Are you so stupid you dont realize that on blind luck alone...every team is bound to win every now and then? Jesus Christ, all you do is make excuses.

You are impressed with a 1 out of 16 success rate. God, that is pathetic.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by nux fan

heisey is way better thanstubbs for an outfield positon, give it up already with stubbs are you his next of kin

How do you know he is better? Is his numbers this year better then Stubbs numbers last year?

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by IWasBornInCincy

Where was the Outcry? They made the playoffs one time in 16 seasons. Are you so stupid you dont realize that on blind luck alone...every team is bound to win every now and then? Jesus Christ, all you do is make excuses.

You are impressed with a 1 out of 16 success rate. God, that is pathetic.

Really, please remind me the last time these teams made the playoffs:

Since 1990 lets say, how many playoff appearnces have these teams made:

Pirates
Nationals
Royals
Astros
Seattle
Cubs
Rangers
Rockies
A's
O's

There are 10 teams right there that at most may have 2 playoff appearances in the last 20+ years. With no salary cap and teams having limited payrolls MLB is not like the NFL where teams make the playoffs more often. Given the ownership group the Reds had until Bob took over, I am not surprised the Reds have struggled, when ownerships objective is to turn a profit over winning, you get that.

[IWasBornInCincy]

Originally Posted by brm7675

Really, please remind me the last time these teams made the playoffs:

Since 1990 lets say, how many playoff appearnces have these teams made:

Pirates
Nationals
Royals
Astros - 6 - 1 WS and around 20 playoff wins
Seattle - 4 - Won countless playoff games
Cubs - 4 - Won countless playoff games
Rangers - 5 - Won countless playoff games and made a WS
Rockies - 3 - Won many playoff games and made a WS
A's - 1 - Made ALCS and have won 4 playoff games

O's

There are 10 teams right there that at most may have 2 playoff appearances in the last 20+ years. With no salary cap and teams having limited payrolls MLB is not like the NFL where teams make the playoffs more often. Given the ownership group the Reds had until Bob took over, I am not surprised the Reds have struggled, when ownerships objective is to turn a profit over winning, you get that.

[IWasBornInCincy]

YOu dont know what you are talkig about, obviously


IN THE LAST 16 YEARS, THE ONLY TEAMS IN BASEBALL NOT TO WIN A PLAYOFF GAME ARE THE REDS, ROYALS, NATIONALS and PIRATES


Misery loves company

[Ohayou]

You two need to learn to multiquote.

[IWasBornInCincy]

There ya go. I own some moron, and the only reply tot he post is critiquing the way I post the reply. haha, so stupid.

[Ohayou]

Originally Posted by IWasBornInCincy

There ya go. I own some moron, and the only reply tot he post is critiquing the way I post the reply. haha, so stupid.

Too bad you replied to the wrong person.

[Red Raindog]

Originally Posted by brm7675

I agree with Stubbs, but given his limited experience do you not think he will learn? Now if his numbers stay similar next season with no sign of any improvement then I will begin to wonder if he can handle this game, but hitting a baseball on the major league level were even the "greats" hit in the mid .300's, I willing to give this kid some time to "learn the art of hitting" before writing him off. If the Reds had a much better option available I might be open to going that route, but right now, unless something happens in the offseason...we don't.

If I had seen a small sign that he was learning I might be more patient with him but it is either on him or on the coaching --- I lean to blaming him since he can't ignore the numbers he put up and I saw no adjustments made even with 2 strikes.