Here is your 2012 Opending day roster...discuss among yourselfs

[dMaus14]

Well if I was GM:

C: Hanigan / Mez
1B: Votto
2B: Phillips
3B: Rolen / Cairo
SS: Lowrie / Cozart
LF: Dejesus / Heisey
CF: Stubbs
RF: Bruce

Trade anybody not named Cueto, Votto, Bruce, Mez, Leake, Chapman to get Daniel Bard and Jed Lowrie from the RedSox. Bard can replace Cordero and is cheap for next 4-5 years and Lowrie is in year 1 of Arbitration but has had low totals because of injuries. Then sign David Dejesus (his expected price is 2 yr/9.5 mil so I would offer 3 yr/11.5 mil).

I would bring back everyone in the bullpen except Masset and Cordero. I think sending Chapman to the Louisville to lengthen him out is a waste of a year of his contract because it will take 2-3 months to get him to the point besides he has a pretty friendly contract not making 5 mil until 2014.

I would somehow trade for either Gavin Floyd or James Shields and insert them into the top of our rotation.

1. Cueto
2. Floyd / Shields
3. Leake
4. Bailey / Volquez / Wood
5. Arroyo (I don't know why maybe its the 12 mil we have to pay him)

RP: Arredondo, Lecure, Bray, Chapman, Bard, Ondrusek, Burton

That leaves you with: Alonso, Wood, Bailey, Volquez and a nice farm system to trade with. I just never understood the point in building your farm system if your not going to trade with them or not even use them as super subs and overpay old veterans to do that. And I like Jocketty!

[Vottomatic]

Disagree with alot of what is being said.

To say the Rays won't deal Shields is kind of dismissing that they let 11 players walk last year. They are constantly in the mode of keeping the payroll low. They also had Shields on the market at the deadline. And they have alot of young pitching that is cheaper. They also have some holes to fill, and making trades to restock their farm system is another of their trademarks. I say it's a good bet Shields is on the market in the offseason for the right return.

As for SS, I think Walt hopes Cozart is healthy enough to pick up where he left off. I think the Janish experiment is over, and I don't see him with the major league team next year. I actually see Frazier as the all around backup, for the 5th OFer spot, and he can back up all the infield positions if need be, after Cairo, of course. And Frazier has power as a pinch hitter. And lastly, he's cheaper than Renteria's $2M.

3B - if Dusty is not smart enough to platoon Francisco with Rolen, then he should be fired. The catcher platoon is a great example of keeping a position and players fresh, if you have guys with equal ability. If Rolen is healthy, he's still older........playing him 3 or 4 days a week is only going to help the guy. And his contract is up after '12. Time to groom his replacement and break him in slowly. This should be all but mandated from the top of the organization. It's a no-brainer.

I don't see Stubbs here next year, and I see Heisey in CF.
I don't see Alonso here next year.

1B - Votto
2B - Phillips
RF - Bruce
C - Mez/Hanigan - although I have this weird feeling Mez might be traded and Ramon re-signed. Ramon is really liked by this organization. But he might be too pricey after his good season.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by Vottomatic

Disagree with alot of what is being said.

To say the Rays won't deal Shields is kind of dismissing that they let 11 players walk last year. They are constantly in the mode of keeping the payroll low. They also had Shields on the market at the deadline. And they have alot of young pitching that is cheaper. They also have some holes to fill, and making trades to restock their farm system is another of their trademarks. I say it's a good bet Shields is on the market in the offseason for the right return.

As for SS, I think Walt hopes Cozart is healthy enough to pick up where he left off. I think the Janish experiment is over, and I don't see him with the major league team next year. I actually see Frazier as the all around backup, for the 5th OFer spot, and he can back up all the infield positions if need be, after Cairo, of course. And Frazier has power as a pinch hitter. And lastly, he's cheaper than Renteria's $2M.

3B - if Dusty is not smart enough to platoon Francisco with Rolen, then he should be fired. The catcher platoon is a great example of keeping a position and players fresh, if you have guys with equal ability. If Rolen is healthy, he's still older........playing him 3 or 4 days a week is only going to help the guy. And his contract is up after '12. Time to groom his replacement and break him in slowly. This should be all but mandated from the top of the organization. It's a no-brainer.

I don't see Stubbs here next year, and I see Heisey in CF.
I don't see Alonso here next year.

1B - Votto
2B - Phillips
RF - Bruce
C - Mez/Hanigan - although I have this weird feeling Mez might be traded and Ramon re-signed. Ramon is really liked by this organization. But he might be too pricey after his good season.

Thing is with Shields is he is not overpaid and very good starting pitching is not easy to replace with kids. I think unless they are blown away by an offer (like they were not at the deadline) Shields goes no where, so the question is what team is going to "way overpay in talent" to get Shields.

As for Platoon at 3rd, it's the smart thing, but not the way Dusty likes to manage. Now again I see no way of Rolen plays more then a 110 or more games so Juan will get his chance, but when Rolen is on the DL.

I don't see Walt making any world shaking deals this offseason, maybe picking up another vet to back up Cozart especially since we don't know if or when Cozart will be ready. I think it will be a very quiet winter in cincy.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by Stray

Nobody is saying he isn't a question mark. I think we all agree there. What I'm saying is that he's our starting SS next year, for better or for worse. Just like Janish going into this year. Now things can change with an injury or if he's bad, but right now that's our plan.

And yeah we will look to bring in a veteran or more than likely try and resign Renteria. Regardless of what you think of Dusty and veterans, that doesn't mean we're bringing in a guy to start. Just like Renteria wasn't signed to take Janish's job.

I don't think Walt signed Renteria to be the starting and everyday SS, but I do think it was Dusty's plan from the start to play Renteria much more then Janish.

[Stray]

Originally Posted by texasdave

I don't think this is necessarily all that true of a statement. Renteria started the second game of the season. How many starters, in this case Janish, need a breather after one game? Of the season's first 24 games, Renteria started 7 at short. Once again, how many other starters got 7 games off in the first 24?
I don't think Renteria signs with Cincinnati unless he is given assurances that he is going to get plenty of chances to play. His contract had a base amount and then bonuses for certain numbers of ABs. Do you sign such a contract unless you feel there is a reasonable chance that you are going to get those ABs?
Did Janish put a chokehold on short? Of course not. But how secure is a player going to be when one out of every 3 games, roughly, he is back on the pine? 7 games off in the first 24 is about the quickest hook I have ever seen.

I'll be honest, I don't even remember that. Maybe it was a matchup we liked? I don't think it mattered either way though. Janish was our starting SS at the start of this year. He didn't start really losing starts at short until Rolen got injured and he was taking some games at 3rd.

Janish had plenty of time to prove that us giving him the job was the right move. Instead he proved that he's not an everyday major league player.

I'd also say that even though we named him our starter his leash was shorter than usual. The same could be said about Cozart going into next year...and I think that his leash should be short. Like you said he really is a big question mark. We saw enough of Janish to know he wasn't ready for the job...more time wasn't going to show us anything else.

[Stray]

Originally Posted by brm7675

I don't think Walt signed Renteria to be the starting and everyday SS, but I do think it was Dusty's plan from the start to play Renteria much more then Janish.

Janish had his chance to put that job on lockdown. It isn't Dusty or Walt's fault that he couldn't get a hit to save his life.

[Vottomatic]

Originally Posted by brm7675

Thing is with Shields is he is not overpaid and very good starting pitching is not easy to replace with kids. I think unless they are blown away by an offer (like they were not at the deadline) Shields goes no where, so the question is what team is going to "way overpay in talent" to get Shields.

As for Platoon at 3rd, it's the smart thing, but not the way Dusty likes to manage. Now again I see no way of Rolen plays more then a 110 or more games so Juan will get his chance, but when Rolen is on the DL.

I don't see Walt making any world shaking deals this offseason, maybe picking up another vet to back up Cozart especially since we don't know if or when Cozart will be ready. I think it will be a very quiet winter in cincy.

But......but......but........

We can go round and round all day on this. The next 6 months should be interesting.

Hopefully Walt fills the needs and this team has a fighting chance next season.

[texasdave]

They also had Shields on the market at the deadline.

Assuming this is true then why isn't he a Red? If Walt wouldn't pony up then why do you think he will pony up now?

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by texasdave

Assuming this is true then why isn't he a Red? If Walt wouldn't pony up then why do you think he will pony up now?

If you are the Rays wouldn't you want the world because if you don't get it you still have Shields...if you do get it you get the world...

I mean if I am the Rays I tell the Reds I want Yonder, Devin, Hamilton and say Fransico who could become their very cheap but good DH.

[nux fan]

give them your hero stubbs after all he is soooo good!!

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by nux fan

give them your hero stubbs after all he is soooo good!!

I don't offer Stubbs, I go with Stubbs/Heisey/Bruce as my outfield for the next 5-6 years in cincy.

[Kiss the Baby00]

C: Mez/Hannigan
1B: Votto
2B: Phillips
3B: Rolen/JFran
SS: Cozart
LF: Alonso
CF: Heisey
RF: Bruce
4th OF: Sappelt
Util: Frazier

Bench: Cairo, Valaika


SP: Cueto
SP: Chapman
SP: Leake
SP: Arroyo
SP: Bailey

CP: Cordero
SU: Massett
Pen: Bray, Ondrusek, LeCure, Wood or Volquez(the other will be traded or in AAA)


I expect Stubbs to be moved along with either Bailey, Volquez or Wood and Arrendondo

[Stray]

I really don't see any way Sappelt makes the team unless there is a trade that makes room for him.

1. Votto
2. Phillips
3. Cozart
4. Rolen
5. Hanigan
6. Bruce
7. Stubbs
8. Alonso
9. Francisco
10. Mes
11. Cairo
12. Heisey
13. This spot has to be a backup SS. The easy option would be Janish, the creative option would be Frazier (who can play multiple positions but it makes too much sense so it would never happen), and the safe option would be a cheap veteran.

We're not going to carry more than 13 position players I wouldn't think. Sappelt has been good, but I don't see him bumping anyone out of those spots unless some of them are gonna be traded.

We need to make some additions to our pitching. I won't even list them because if we fill those spots with nothing but arms we have currently it'll suck pretty hard.

[brm7675]

Originally Posted by Kiss the Baby00

C: Mez/Hannigan I hope your right but I think if Walt can get Ramon for a decent price they will resign him which would be stupid.

1B: Votto
2B: Phillips
3B: Rolen/JFran I think if Rolen comes into camp 100% healthy they will start Juan in AAA to let him play everyday and then call him up when Rolen goes DL

SS: Cozart It will be interesting to see how he rebounds from TJ surgery and if he will be ready come OD

LF: Alonso I still doubt Dusty is comfortable with him out there, so it will be interesting to see the power struggle between Dusty and Walt over Younder this winter. I think the odds are greater he is traded over being the opening day LF

CF: Heisey No chance, Dusty doesn't see Heisey as an everyday player and that won't change in the offseason unless Walt trades Stubbs.

RF: Bruce

4th OF: Sappelt I am not sure if the club is sold on him just yet.

Util: Frazier See above and Sappelt

Bench: Cairo, Valaika


SP: Cueto
SP: Chapman Won't be ready to be SP by opending day, may join rotation come Juneish

SP: Leake
SP: Arroyo
SP: Bailey

CP: Cordero don't like it but you are probably right
SU: Massett
Pen: Bray, Ondrusek, LeCure, Wood or Volquez(the other will be traded or in AAA)


I expect Stubbs to be moved along with either Bailey, Volquez or Wood and Arrendondo