If I was GM...

[dcameron24]

Completely random thoughts so please don't blast me as I usually suck at these sort of things. With Pujols gone and Fielder more than likely gone I think now is the time for the Reds to capitalize on the foundation they have (Votto specifically) and make a run at it. Atlanta is said to be looking for SS/OF plus for Jurrjens and Tampa Bay has made it known they are interested in Alonso.

How about the following (may be too little/too much)...

Cozart/Heisey/Wood for Jurrjens

Alonso/Grandal/Volquez/Plus for Shields/Upton

Salaries should be close to:
Jurrjens - 5m (Arbitration)
Upton - 6m (Arbitration)
Shields - 7m (Under Contract)

This would be a lot of money to take on for the Reds, but now is as good of a time to do it as they'll have in the next couple years. Also, they'll be getting 2 supplemental picks for Hernandez and Cordero so losing some of the "depth", prospect-wise, wouldn't kill them too bad.

They could then do something like Cody Ross to fill the 4th OF spot and Ronny Cedeno/Ryan Theriot to fill Cozart's spot.

Lineup:
Phillips 2b
Upton LF
Votto 1b
Rolen 3b
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Mesoraco/Hanigan C
Cedeno/Theriot SS

Rotation:
Cueto
Jurrjens
Shields
Chapman
Arroyo

Thoughts?

[brm7675]

Why in the world would you give up anything for Jurrjens? He is injuried prone and nothing better then what we have?

[izzy's dad]

Upton is a lot like Drew Stubbs. Good but not great power, speed, good glove, and lots of strikeouts. An outfield of Upton, Stubbs, and Bruce strikes out about 500 times a season, and that is way too many. At this point I don't see any major moves being made, at least none that improve the club. Walt will bring in some scrap heap players to fill roles, and Dusty will give them way too much playing time. Unless we see dramatic improvement from Drew Stubbs, Chris Heisey, Travis Wood, Homer Bailey, etc. We are looking at another long season. Anyway that is my rant of the day.

[will5979]

1st I would have signed Jose Reyes.

Next I would trade for the 26 year old LH Starter from Oakland.

3rd I would trade for Corey Hart.

[dcameron24]

Originally Posted by brm7675

Why in the world would you give up anything for Jurrjens? He is injuried prone and nothing better then what we have?

Mainly I was just going off the "rumors" floating around...

How about scratching Jurrjens and making Andrew Bailey the target with some combination of those players?

[dcameron24]

Originally Posted by izzy's dad

Upton is a lot like Drew Stubbs. Good but not great power, speed, good glove, and lots of strikeouts. An outfield of Upton, Stubbs, and Bruce strikes out about 500 times a season, and that is way too many. At this point I don't see any major moves being made, at least none that improve the club. Walt will bring in some scrap heap players to fill roles, and Dusty will give them way too much playing time. Unless we see dramatic improvement from Drew Stubbs, Chris Heisey, Travis Wood, Homer Bailey, etc. We are looking at another long season. Anyway that is my rant of the day.

I think for what you lose in strikeouts (hence trying to spread them out a little in the hypothetical lineup) you gain some power, ability to drive in runs and defense. An outfield of Upton, Stubbs and Bruce is the best defensive outfield in the league in my opinion.

[izzy's dad]

Originally Posted by dcameron24

I think for what you lose in strikeouts (hence trying to spread them out a little in the hypothetical lineup) you gain some power, ability to drive in runs and defense. An outfield of Upton, Stubbs and Bruce is the best defensive outfield in the league in my opinion.

I agree with you. The defense would be superb. But trying to spread those strikeouts around the current Reds lineup would be hard. We have so few hitters that are good at making consistent contact that I worry it would be impossible to spread out those Ks. I do think Upton would benefit from a move to the NL Central.

[bounty37h]

Originally Posted by dcameron24

Completely random thoughts so please don't blast me as I usually suck at these sort of things. With Pujols gone and Fielder more than likely gone I think now is the time for the Reds to capitalize on the foundation they have (Votto specifically) and make a run at it. Atlanta is said to be looking for SS/OF plus for Jurrjens and Tampa Bay has made it known they are interested in Alonso.

How about the following (may be too little/too much)...

Cozart/Heisey/Wood for Jurrjens

Alonso/Grandal/Volquez/Plus for Shields/Upton

Salaries should be close to:
Jurrjens - 5m (Arbitration)
Upton - 6m (Arbitration)
Shields - 7m (Under Contract)

This would be a lot of money to take on for the Reds, but now is as good of a time to do it as they'll have in the next couple years. Also, they'll be getting 2 supplemental picks for Hernandez and Cordero so losing some of the "depth", prospect-wise, wouldn't kill them too bad.

They could then do something like Cody Ross to fill the 4th OF spot and Ronny Cedeno/Ryan Theriot to fill Cozart's spot.

Lineup:
Phillips 2b
Upton LF
Votto 1b
Rolen 3b
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
Mesoraco/Hanigan C
Cedeno/Theriot SS

Rotation:
Cueto
Jurrjens
Shields
Chapman
Arroyo

Thoughts?

Not interested in Upton at all.

[dMaus14]

I will probably be tar and feathered but here's what I would do:

Beginning payroll after arbitration salaries, league minimum salaries, Votto and Arroyo's actual salary not including signing bonuses and Phillip's options: $69.5M
** My untouchables: Hamilton, Mesoraco, Grandal, Cueto, Bruce, Leake, Alonso

Trade:
Joey Votto - $9.5M
Homer Bailey - $1.8M
-FOR-
Yunel Escobar - $5M
Brandon Morrow - $4.2M
Deck McGuire - minors
Kyle Drabek - $.5

** save $2.1M: get a SS/leadoff, #2-3 power arm and 2 high potential SP for AA/AAA
** new payroll = $67.5M

Trade:
Dave Sappelt - minors
Edinson Volquez - $2.3M
Travis Wood - $.5M
Todd Frazier - minors
-FOR-
John Danks - $7.6M

** add $4.8M and a #2-3 SP
** new payroll = $72.3M

Sign Michael Cuddyer to a 3 year / $30M (club option for 4th year; $2M signing bonus, $1M buyout so AAV = $9M)
** add $9M and a middle of the order RH power bat who can play 3B, 1B and LF
** new payroll = $81.3M

Rotation: Cueto, Danks, Morrow, Leake, Arroyo, Wood
CL: Chapman
Bullpen: Masset, Ondrusek, LeCure, Bray, Arredondo

1 - Escobar - SS
2 - Phillips - 2B
3 - Alonso - 1B
4 - Cuddyer - LF
5 - Bruce - RF
6 - Rolen - 3B
7 - Stubbs - CF
8 - Mesoraco - C

Bench: Hanigan, Heisey, Cozart, Cairo, Francisco

Total Payroll: $81.3M

Fill middle of the order bat and LF, have a SS and leadoff batter, good rotation 1-4 and still some money to spend

[brad1176]

Who would your 5th starter be? You have Wood listed but you traded him away in the Danks deal.

[dMaus14]

Missed that on accident sorry! But Arroyo would be my 5th guy, Wood would be in RP with Drabek ready in AAA. I meant Corcinco in the trade for Danks.

[R_Webb18]

Originally Posted by brm7675

Why in the world would you give up anything for Jurrjens? He is injuried prone

this is true

and nothing better then what we have?

this is not true

[Redsnake]

dMaus14 love the breakdown. Forgive me if I use some of your thoughts and ideas.
Here's my GM moves.
Untouchables: Hamilton, Mesoraco, Grandal, Cueto, Bruce, Leake, Alonso

Trade #1
Toronto:
Joey Votto
Homer Bailey
Dave Sappelt
Zack Cozart

Reds:
Brett Lawrie
Yunel Escobar
Brandon Morrow

This deal starts and ends with Brett Lawrie. If he's not in the deal then Vottofor Bautista straight up.

Trade #2
WSox:
Edinson Volquez
Todd Frazier
Juan Fransico
Bronson Arroyo
Yorman Rodriguez
Nefi Soto

Reds:
John Danks
Carlos Quentin
The Soxs get younger and with Arroyo going back to them the money stay pretty close to even. The Reds only have control of the two for one year.

#1 Morrow
#2 Cueto
#3 Danks
#4 Leake
#5 Chapman (Chapman @ #5 = less expectations and greater return)
CL Boxberger
Bullpen: Masset, Ondrusek, LeCure, Bray, Arredondo, Wood


1 - Escobar - SS
2 - Phillips - 2B
3 - Alonso - 1B
4 - Quentin - LF
5 - Bruce - RF
6 - Lawrie - 3B
7 - Stubbs - CF
8 - Mesoraco - C

Bench: Hanigan, Heisey, Cairo, Rolen, Janish

[dMaus14]

My only problem with yours compared to mine is that even though it basically gets the same return I am keeping more prospects in the system. I know that we need to win now but by keeping more prospects in the system we can use those prospects later around the trade deadline for upgrades for RP, a hitter or whatever. Those prospects such as Juan Francisco, Y. Rodriguez, Soto and Cozart could be used later. That's just how I feel about it but overall I do think we can be a better team without Votto if we trade him properly.

[izzy's dad]

Not trying to derail the thread with this post. But any deal involving Votto now or in the future must return elite prospects. Not good, not really good, I am talking supreme talent, and lots of it. For me a deal with the Blue Jays starts with Lawrie and escobar, includes Drabek and Marisnik, as well as their two top pitching prospects. If I am going to trade my MVP that is just reaching his prime, the deal better explode with talent. I don't want any part of Bautista, as suddenly as hit production rose I fear it will fall just as fast.

My moves would be as follows:

1. John Danks via trade. Would Alonso, Corcino, Sappelt get it done?

2. Sign Either Willingham or Beltran

3. Bank on improvement from Jay Bruce, Mike Leake, Hannigan/Mesoraco, Rolen/Fransisco, Chapman, Stubbs, etc.

With our limited payroll I really think that this is the best we could do. I would go to war with this group and save my other prospects for upgrades at the deadline if needed.