Reds trade LHP Jeremy Horst to Phillies for infielder Wilson Valdez

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Reds/Flyers Fan

The are not the exact same player. Valdez can play far more positions and better at the plate, particularly in clutch situations.

Paul Janish has to hit better and learn to play more positions to be as valuable to a club as Wilson Valdez.

Which positions does Valdez play that Janish can't? Because Janish can most definitely play 2B and 3B.

[Ron Madden]

This trade doesn't bother me one way or the other.

What gets me is people keep saying Valdez is CLEARLY a better hitter than Janish is. Rick and others have posted the stats, the stats say that they are pretty much the same hitter.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

This trade doesn't bother me one way or the other.

What gets me is people keep saying Valdez is CLEARLY a better hitter than Janish is. Rick and others have posted the stats, the stats say that they are pretty much the same hitter.

What is Valdez?

He's a guy who doesn't expect to start, he's a guy who likely does little things better, like going the other way, getting a bunt down, switching positions mid inning.

And he Is now with Ramon gone the defacto Latin Sage on the team

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by westofyou

What is Valdez?

He's a guy who doesn't expect to start, he's a guy who likely does little things better, like going the other way, getting a bunt down, switching positions mid inning.

And he Is now with Ramon gone the defacto Latin Sage on the team

They still look like pretty much the same hitter to me...

[cincrazy]

13 pages dedicated to a Jeremy Horst for Wilson Valdez trade. Only on Redszone. Love it .

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

13 pages dedicated to a Jeremy Horst for Wilson Valdez trade. Only on Redszone. Love it .

Yep 13 pages, and a fair number of those 13 pages are filled with folks complaining about this thread being so long.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

Yep 13 pages, and a fair number of those 13 pages are filled with folks complaining about this thread being so long.

No kidding. There are lots of threads that others post in that I can't imagine why anyone cares, but I don't make it my mission to mock people for talking about it.

If a topic doesn't interest some one, they should merely move on and let the others discuss the topic that they wish to discuss.

This team is almost set. Janish vs. Valdez vs. Frazier vs. Valaika vs. Harris is probably one of the bigger decisions that the team will be making in Spring Training. Seems fairly topical IMO.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

They still look like pretty much the same hitter to me...

Not when you look beyond the career line on B-R. After watching Janish completely flop last season the Reds brass is probably having issues with him being the safety net for someone with hardly any track record.

[mattfeet]

So Valdez makes how many shortstops that BPhil has played with now?

[TRF]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Not when you look beyond the career line on B-R. After watching Janish completely flop last season the Reds brass is probably having issues with him being the safety net for someone with hardly any track record.

They can also look to the year before and be even more confused. Because I'll take that year from my backup SS every time.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by TRF

They can also look to the year before and be even more confused. Because I'll take that year from my backup SS every time.

I sure wouldn't, unless of course it was 1984, historically bad season at the plate for Janish, the fact he got that many PA's says more about the Reds other choices than it does about his skill set.

SEASON
1980-2011
SS
AT BATS BETWEEN 250 AND 350

OBA                           YEAR     OBA      AB     
1    Andujar Cedeno           1996     .247      335   
T2   Onix Concepcion          1985     .255      314   
T2   Kiko Garcia              1980     .255      311   
4    Ronny Cedeno             2009     .256      341   
5    Spike Owen               1983     .257      306   
6    Paul Janish              2011     .259      336   
7    Alfredo Griffin          1988     .259      316   
8    Jose Oquendo             1983     .260      328   
9    Tripp Cromer             1995     .261      345   
10   Benji Gil                1997     .263      317   

RUNS CREATED/GAME             YEAR    RC/G      AB     
1    Jose Oquendo             1983     1.73      328   
2    Kiko Garcia              1980     1.81      311   
3    Onix Concepcion          1985     1.87      314   
4    Andujar Cedeno           1996     2.17      335   
5    Alfredo Griffin          1988     2.18      316   
6    Paul Janish              2011     2.21      336   
7    Spike Owen               1983     2.37      306   
8    Pat Meares               1993     2.39      346   
9    Walt Weiss               1992     2.44      316   
10   Tripp Cromer             1995     2.45      345   

SLG                           YEAR     SLG      AB     
1    Kiko Garcia              1980     .235      311   
2    Walt Weiss               1992     .241      316   
3    Wayne Tolleson           1987     .241      349   
4    Jose Oquendo             1983     .244      328   
5    Onix Concepcion          1985     .245      314   
6    Alfredo Griffin          1988     .253      316   
7    Paul Janish              2011     .262      336   
8    Rafael Belliard          1986     .262      309   
9    Casey Candaele           1992     .266      320   
10   Spike Owen               1983     .271      306

[TRF]

Originally Posted by westofyou

I sure wouldn't, unless of course it was 1984, historically bad season at the plate for Janish, the fact he got that many PA's says more about the Reds other choices than it does about his skill set.

SEASON
1980-2011
SS
AT BATS BETWEEN 250 AND 350

OBA                           YEAR     OBA      AB     
1    Andujar Cedeno           1996     .247      335   
T2   Onix Concepcion          1985     .255      314   
T2   Kiko Garcia              1980     .255      311   
4    Ronny Cedeno             2009     .256      341   
5    Spike Owen               1983     .257      306   
6    Paul Janish              2011     .259      336   
7    Alfredo Griffin          1988     .259      316   
8    Jose Oquendo             1983     .260      328   
9    Tripp Cromer             1995     .261      345   
10   Benji Gil                1997     .263      317   

RUNS CREATED/GAME             YEAR    RC/G      AB     
1    Jose Oquendo             1983     1.73      328   
2    Kiko Garcia              1980     1.81      311   
3    Onix Concepcion          1985     1.87      314   
4    Andujar Cedeno           1996     2.17      335   
5    Alfredo Griffin          1988     2.18      316   
6    Paul Janish              2011     2.21      336   
7    Spike Owen               1983     2.37      306   
8    Pat Meares               1993     2.39      346   
9    Walt Weiss               1992     2.44      316   
10   Tripp Cromer             1995     2.45      345   

SLG                           YEAR     SLG      AB     
1    Kiko Garcia              1980     .235      311   
2    Walt Weiss               1992     .241      316   
3    Wayne Tolleson           1987     .241      349   
4    Jose Oquendo             1983     .244      328   
5    Onix Concepcion          1985     .245      314   
6    Alfredo Griffin          1988     .253      316   
7    Paul Janish              2011     .262      336   
8    Rafael Belliard          1986     .262      309   
9    Casey Candaele           1992     .266      320   
10   Spike Owen               1983     .271      306

I was referring to 2010, the year he had the .730ish OPS

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by TRF

I was referring to 2010, the year he had the .730ish OPS

If that's his ceiling than I'm looking for a bigger house

[TRF]

Originally Posted by westofyou

If that's his ceiling than I'm looking for a bigger house

I don't have the software to pull numbers the way you do. BTW, what do you use?

Here is a link to espn's 2010 stats. Yes, we all know what Janish did last year. I think some are forgetting what he did the year before. sorted by AB's, minimum 200 PA's

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting...Bats/minpa/200

look that list over.

he was 9th in OPS at SS. Yes, he had exactly 200 AB's, but as a backup SS, how many SHOULD he get. You may want a larger house, but it doesn't exist.

In 2010, offensively, Paul Janish was one of the best backup SS's in baseball. I can't believe I just typed that, but it's true. He was also one of the best defensive SS's in baseball period.

And in 2011, his offense was putrid. Go figure.

[Bumstead]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Which positions does Valdez play that Janish can't? Because Janish can most definitely play 2B and 3B.

Janish has played 33 games (19 starts) at 2B/3B in his career. Certainly too small a sample size for you to say one way or the other how good he can be in a utility role at those positions. Continue to mock me if you will. We traded nothing for a better utility player and you have an attachment to probably the worst MLB baseball player that had 350 PA's last season. One fluke season does not a player make.

TRF: don't bore me with your "prove it" statement. I have been to baseball-reference.com and looked at the stats and I have actually objectively watched both players play baseball. Valdez is better; he's not great, he's not good, but he knows his role and he can certainly fill that role for this team better than Janish can.

Bum