2012 Bengals discussion

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

Green and Dalton are locked up through 2015. They are cheap. What am I missing? Now would be the time to spend money, while they ARE cheap. Gresham is signed through 2014, Atkins through 2013. None of them can go anywhere for 2 years, minimum.

I am talking cap friendly extensions. Atkins and Dunlap will be $60 million each. Gresham and Dalton as well. Green is a huge contract. Use the cap space after the season, before the 2013 league year begins, on the bonuses.

[LoganBuck]

delete my phone made a double post

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

There was an article a number of years ago about the impact of the top free agents in NFL history. The list was short and the impact of a lot of the major guys in free agency is kinda meh. Most of the teams keep their good and great players locked up until their productive days are ending. It may change with rookie contracts being only 4 years now but I don't see that happening as much.

I wanted to Bengals to make a run at Vincent Jackson, but not at what he signed for. The key would be to getting a true #2 WR and sign Green longterm. Most teams have been successful building via the draft and even with trades. Free Agency has been fools gold.

The problem with the Bengals is that they're not even keeping their own players!

Jonathan Joseph, Jonathan Fanene, Frostee Rucker, maybe Reggie Nelson

They have too many holes to compete next year, and their failings this week are forcing them to have a perfect draft in order to even have a chance at an 8-8 season. Seriously, they need a RB, a WR, two OG, a CB, a S, and maybe a MLB, not to mention more DL depth now. Even if they hit perfectly, they can only get three of those in the first two rounds.

Look at next year's schedule: Of course it is WAY too early to tell because we don't know what these teams will look like in September, but if I had to call it right now, I can envision home wins against Cleveland, Oakland, Miami and maybe Dallas. Road wins against Cleveland, Jacksonville, and maybe Washington. That sets us up for 6-10 or 7-9, probably at best...

...UNLESS they can shock the world and sign some combination (ie more than one) of Michael Bush, Brandon Lloyd, Mario Manningham and/or LaRon Landry. Drafting Trent Richardson wouldn't hurt either, but he'll likely be gone by 17. Nicks or Grubbs would have been huge but they are gone now, meaning we HAVE to spend one of the first round picks on either DeCastro or Glenn. If Nelson leaves and we don't sign Landry, we'll likely have to take Mark Barron if he's there as well. That leaves big holes at RB and WR (and CB) that need to be filled in FA...now!!

That said, I have NO interest in BenJarvus Green-Ellis. He is a downgrade from Benson. They must get Bush or Richardson. I'd happily take both.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Benihana

The problem with the Bengals is that they're not even keeping their own players!

Jonathan Joseph, Jonathan Fanene, Frostee Rucker, maybe Reggie Nelson

They have too many holes to compete next year, and their failings this week are forcing them to have a perfect draft in order to even have a chance at an 8-8 season. Seriously, they need a RB, a WR, two OG, a CB, a S, and maybe a MLB, not to mention more DL depth now. Even if they hit perfectly, they can only get three of those in the first two rounds.

Look at next year's schedule: Of course it is WAY too early to tell because we don't know what these teams will look like in September, but if I had to call it right now, I can envision home wins against Cleveland, Oakland, Miami and maybe Dallas. Road wins against Cleveland, Jacksonville, and maybe Washington. That sets us up for 6-10 or 7-9, probably at best...

...UNLESS they can shock the world and sign some combination (ie more than one) of Michael Bush, Brandon Lloyd, Mario Manningham and/or LaRon Landry. Drafting Trent Richardson wouldn't hurt either, but he'll likely be gone by 17. Nicks or Grubbs would have been huge but they are gone now, meaning we HAVE to spend one of the first round picks on either DeCastro or Glenn. If Nelson leaves and we don't sign Landry, we'll likely have to take Mark Barron if he's there as well. That leaves big holes at RB and WR (and CB) that need to be filled in FA...now!!

That said, I have NO interest in BenJarvus Green-Ellis. He is a downgrade from Benson. They must get Bush or Richardson. I'd happily take both.

Joseph is the only guy I am upset they weren't able to keep. But it was evident when they signed Hall to the extension Joseph was going to test the FA market.

Reggie Nelson is a starter but if he really didn't wow me last year. Solid, but replaceable, espeically if they are planning to move Clemmens to S. Fanene and Rucker are depth, something you should be able to replace. The last thing you want to do is pay them starting money.

I am not going to get upset about losing Fanene or Rucker as long as they make moves in free agency to address their needs.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Joseph is the only guy I am upset they weren't able to keep. But it was evident when they signed Hall to the extension Joseph was going to test the FA market.

Reggie Nelson is a starter but if he really didn't wow me last year. Solid, but replaceable, espeically if they are planning to move Clemmens to S. Fanene and Rucker are depth, something you should be able to replace. The last thing you want to do is pay them starting money.

I am not going to get upset about losing Fanene or Rucker as long as they make moves in free agency to address their needs.

The D-line was the biggest strength on the team last year. This was because of the depth. Other teams can't rotate guys in because their depth isn't nearly as strong. That's gone now. Clearly not as big of a hit as losing JJ, but a hit nonetheless- especially when there is NOTHING being brought in.

Nicks, Grubbs, V-Jax, Colston, all gone.
Lloyd, Manningham, Landry, probably not far behind.

Signing Bush would be a start, but there are still way too many holes to even think about the playoffs next year.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by Benihana

The D-line was the biggest strength on the team last year. This was because of the depth. Other teams can't rotate guys in because their depth isn't nearly as strong. That's gone now. Clearly not as big of a hit as losing JJ, but a hit nonetheless- especially when there is NOTHING being brought in.

Nicks, Grubbs, V-Jax, Colston, all gone.
Lloyd, Manningham, Landry, probably not far behind.

Signing Bush would be a start, but there are still way too many holes to even think about the playoffs next year.

I just don't get too excited about roster filler. Yes they were quality depth, but that is what they were, depth. Depth can be replenished. Quality teams build through the draft, and by retaining priority players. It is pretty obvious that the Bengals didn't value those players as more than average. Lets say they sign Bush, Ross, Langford, and maybe Steinbach, wouldn't you think that is a net gain? Reggie Nelson will not break the bank anywhere, so unless he wants out of the organization(possible) the Bengals will have an opportunity to beat any offers.

Sure I would like to see them making deals already, but outside of Grubbs, Nicks, and Mario Williams I haven't seen a player that would have been a major upgrade go elsewhere.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

I just don't get too excited about roster filler. Yes they were quality depth, but that is what they were, depth. Depth can be replenished. Quality teams build through the draft, and by retaining priority players. It is pretty obvious that the Bengals didn't value those players as more than average. Lets say they sign Bush, Ross, Langford, and maybe Steinbach, wouldn't you think that is a net gain? Reggie Nelson will not break the bank anywhere, so unless he wants out of the organization(possible) the Bengals will have an opportunity to beat any offers.

Sure I would like to see them making deals already, but outside of Grubbs, Nicks, and Mario Williams I haven't seen a player that would have been a major upgrade go elsewhere.

"Quality teams build through the draft and retain priority players."

How was Jonathan Joseph not a quality player or a priority last year?

In addition to the three FA you mentioned (Grubbs, Nicks, Williams) basically any WR on the market would be an upgrade- including the still unsigned Lloyd and Manningham and the now off-the-market V-Jax, Colston and Meachem.

Bush would be good but the other guys you mentioned are exactly what you say you are not excited by- roster filler. Ross, Langford, and Steinbach at this point in his career are no better than what we had last year. We could get similar players after the first day of the draft. Bengals need IMPACT.

[Ohayou]

Jason Allen to the Bengals: 2 years/$8.2 mil. Reggie Nelson is also expected to make a decision by today.

[LoganBuck]

Reggie Nelson returns per @adamscheffter

[Mario-Rijo]

And it's not listed here but they also signed Travelle Wharton OG to a deal prior to Allen.


My thinking on the the Bengals this past week is I believe I know what they are thinking and I don't like the idea. The main issue here being they have to have the minimum cap filled by a certain date next year. The 5 core players that may require extensions at some point prior to the end of 2013/2014 all still have multiple seasons left on their deals (Dunlap, Atkins, Green, Dalton, Gresham). Why throw all that cheap production away and also end up having to pay them a 3rd contract further down the road potentially? Sure I'm all for signing guys a year prior to their FA year and depending on the guy/circumstances possibly a year sooner than that. But only 2 of those 5 qualify for that in my mind next season and that's if they continue to do well. There is still alot of uncertainty with most if not all 5 also and not necessarily no brainers to sign to LTC's.

I didn't expect them to go all crazy but OG was a glaring need and although Nicks contract demands were a bit ludicrous Ben Grubbs should have been a full court press. Instead they settle for not only mediocre Travelle Wharton but a 31 year old mediocre Wharton, Chilo Rachal would have made alot more sense and they didn't even bring him in for a visit. Neither are great pass blockers but at least Rachal is 25 years old and a much superior run blocker to Wharton who is good but not great, Rachal is a great run blocker perhaps the best in football. Something more needed to be done here.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

Reggie Nelson returns per @adamscheffter

The Bengals made the AFC North's biggest move in free agency so far, re-signing safety Reggie Nelson, according to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Why is it so big? Cincinnati pointed to Nelson as its top priority in free agency and didn't lose him in a battle with the New York Jets. The Bengals also kept Nelson at a time when it would be hard to replace him (the safety position is weak in free agency and the draft) and didn't let him leave like cornerback Johnathan Joseph a year ago.

ESPN Link

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

And it's not listed here but they also signed Travelle Wharton OG to a deal prior to Allen.


My thinking on the the Bengals this past week is I believe I know what they are thinking and I don't like the idea. The main issue here being they have to have the minimum cap filled by a certain date next year. The 5 core players that may require extensions at some point prior to the end of 2013/2014 all still have multiple seasons left on their deals (Dunlap, Atkins, Green, Dalton, Gresham). Why throw all that cheap production away and also end up having to pay them a 3rd contract further down the road potentially? Sure I'm all for signing guys a year prior to their FA year and depending on the guy/circumstances possibly a year sooner than that. But only 2 of those 5 qualify for that in my mind next season and that's if they continue to do well. There is still alot of uncertainty with most if not all 5 also and not necessarily no brainers to sign to LTC's.

I didn't expect them to go all crazy but OG was a glaring need and although Nicks contract demands were a bit ludicrous Ben Grubbs should have been a full court press. Instead they settle for not only mediocre Travelle Wharton but a 31 year old mediocre Wharton, Chilo Rachal would have made alot more sense and they didn't even bring him in for a visit. Neither are great pass blockers but at least Rachal is 25 years old and a much superior run blocker to Wharton who is good but not great, Rachal is a great run blocker perhaps the best in football. Something more needed to be done here.

I think Wharton is a short term hedge on Clint Boling.

[bucksfan2]

The problem I have with free agency in the NFL is people make a big too do out of it but the reality is its impact isn't nearly as much. The Bengals let two underachieving guards go who all of a sudden became in demand free agents. In the NFL you don't build through free agency, you build through the draft. If the Bengals are intent on picking a Guard in the draft who they think can slide right in I have no problem with the way they are acting in free agency in regards to the OL.

I don't really know what to think about Reggie Nelson. He was a solid safety, nothing spectacular as a Bengal. Its nice getting him back because he has been in the system for a number of years. But he isn't a difference maker in the back 7 that the Bengals sorely need. Don't know enough about Jason Allen, but if he is a solid corner he will help the Bengals out. They still will need to take a DB with one of their first 3 picks, but it may just give them a little more flexibility in the draft.

If they sign Michael Bush I will consider it a very good offseasn for the Bengals. If you go back all the way to Carson Palmer IMO the Bengals have done well in FA. An extra draft choice, retained their #1 priority, and haven't lost a key contributor to the team.

[bucksfan2]

DP

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

I think Wharton is a short term hedge on Clint Boling.

Could be, and I liked the pick in the draft mostly due to the fact they hadn't taken one before him and he was the last one I felt had a chance to be a good guard. Although in reading his scouting reports one could come to the conclusion he may never work out, he doesn't naturally knee bend/anchor and sometimes those guys cannot seem to change it, at least not enough to start. He profiles as a good backup. Otis Hudson OTOH might be the answer there I still believe he has all the natural talent to play it.

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

The problem I have with free agency in the NFL is people make a big too do out of it but the reality is its impact isn't nearly as much. The Bengals let two underachieving guards go who all of a sudden became in demand free agents. In the NFL you don't build through free agency, you build through the draft. If the Bengals are intent on picking a Guard in the draft who they think can slide right in I have no problem with the way they are acting in free agency in regards to the OL.

I don't really know what to think about Reggie Nelson. He was a solid safety, nothing spectacular as a Bengal. Its nice getting him back because he has been in the system for a number of years. But he isn't a difference maker in the back 7 that the Bengals sorely need. Don't know enough about Jason Allen, but if he is a solid corner he will help the Bengals out. They still will need to take a DB with one of their first 3 picks, but it may just give them a little more flexibility in the draft.

If they sign Michael Bush I will consider it a very good offseasn for the Bengals. If you go back all the way to Carson Palmer IMO the Bengals have done well in FA. An extra draft choice, retained their #1 priority, and haven't lost a key contributor to the team.

60 million and a QB who needs all the space he can (ala Brees) to remain productive, don't take shortcuts at the OL or you end up getting your QB smashed too much ala Palmer. They needed 2 guards coming in and they have 60 million and go get a guy who was cut just days ago. He's probably an upgrade but geez why be so dang cheap all the stinking time.