How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

[*BaseClogger*]

This thought just popped into my head and while Spring Training is still kinda lame I figured it would be an appropriate time to bring this up.

How would an all-time Reds team rank compared to the others in MLB? The second best behind the Yankees?

I'm speaking strictly about position players, not pitching haha...

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

How would an all-time Reds team rank compared to the others in MLB? The second best behind the Yankees?

.

Probally in the top 10 but most certainly behind the Yankees and likely the Dodgers, Cards and Red Sox.

[*BaseClogger*]

The huge advantage the Reds have over many organizations are Bench and Morgan, two players who are arguably the greatest of all-time at scarce positions. I guess the Reds are short on outfielders?

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

The huge advantage the Reds have over many organizations are Bench and Morgan, two players who are arguably the greatest of all-time at scarce positions. I guess the Reds are short on outfielders?

Frank Robinson was no slouch...

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

Frank Robinson was no slouch...

Nor was Edd Roush. Stick Robinson in LF, Roush in CF and Junior circa 2000 in RF and you have a darn good OF --- all Hall of Famers.

[buckeyenut]

I would stack up the Reds all time team against anyone.

1B Joey Votto
2B Joe Morgan
SS Barry Larkin
3B Pete Rose
LF George Foster
CF Eric Davis
RF Frank Robinson
C Johnny Bench
UT Edd Roush
UT Tony Perez
UT Ernie Lombardi
UT Davey Concepcion
UT Vida Pinson
UT Bid McPhee
SP Jim Maloney
SP Tom Seaver
SP Eppa Rixey
SP Bucky Walters
SP Mario Soto
MR Rob Dibble
MR Arolis Chapman
MR Randy Myers
MR Pedro Bourbon
MR Norm Charlton
CL John Franco

My list, so I get to include who I want. Imagine that pen with Dibble and Chapman both coming out throwing over 100 and the rest of the Nasty boys also in the pen.

Probably should have included some other guys, but I think it is a great team as is, one that stacks up with anyone except maybe the Yankees.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by buckeyenut

I would stack up the Reds all time team against anyone.

1B Joey Votto
2B Joe Morgan
SS Barry Larkin
3B Pete Rose
LF George Foster
CF Eric Davis
RF Frank Robinson
C Johnny Bench
UT Edd Roush
UT Tony Perez
UT Ernie Lombardi
UT Davey Concepcion
UT Vida Pinson
UT Bid McPhee
SP Jim Maloney
SP Tom Seaver
SP Eppa Rixey
SP Bucky Walters
SP Mario Soto
MR Rob Dibble
MR Arolis Chapman
MR Randy Myers
MR Pedro Bourbon
MR Norm Charlton
CL John Franco

My list, so I get to include who I want. Imagine that pen with Dibble and Chapman both coming out throwing over 100 and the rest of the Nasty boys also in the pen.

Probably should have included some other guys, but I think it is a great team as is, one that stacks up with anyone except maybe the Yankees.

I'll take that action. Here is my all time Cards team:

1B: Pujols
2B: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Ozzie Smith
3B: Ken Boyer
C: Ted Simmons
LF: Stan Musial
CF: Jim Edmonds
RF: Enos Slaughter
UT: Mark McGwire
UT: Yadi Molina
UT: Joe Medwick
UT: Lou Brock
UT: Red Schoendienst
UT: Willie McGee (personal favorite)
SP: Bob Gibson
SP: Cy Young
SP: Steve Carlton
SP: Dizzy Dean
SP: Harry Brecheen
MR: Adam Wainwright
MR: Al Hrabosky
MR: Lee Smith
MR: Dennis Eckersley
MR: Todd Worrell
CP: Bruce Sutter
Manager: Tony LaRussa
GM: Branch Rickey

The only clear advantage I would see the All Reds team have over the All Cardinals team is at the Catcher position. Starting pitching isn't even close. Cards all the way on that front. Morgan was a great player, top 5 2nd baseman, but Hornsby was insane at the plate. Yes, his defense left a little to be desired (just ok defensively) but the dude hit .400 three times in his career (hit an ungodly .424 in 1924) , won the triple crown twice, and OPS'd over 1.100 five different times. Only Babe Ruth was a better player during that era and even at the time, there was debate amongst sports writers and fans as to whom was the better player. I think the Cards actually have more players inducted into the HOF than the Yankees do.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Comparing those 2 specific lineups...I'd have to give the edge offensively to the Reds lineup. But the pitching isn't even close. The offensive differences are small enough that the huge pitching difference gives the Cards a HUGE advantage IMO. It's not really that close to be honest. But then again, I'd have the Yankee lineup well above the Cardinal one as well.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Comparing those 2 specific lineups...I'd have to give the edge offensively to the Reds lineup. But the pitching isn't even close. The offensive differences are small enough that the huge pitching difference gives the Cards a HUGE advantage IMO. It's not really that close to be honest. But then again, I'd have the Yankee lineup well above the Cardinal one as well.

Again, the only edge I would see the Reds having is at the catcher position. I will also even give you short stop, though Ozzie Smith's ability to save runs should certainly be note worthy. Every other position, the Cardinals players are better offensively.

I will also agree with you about the Yankees. That is just a who's who of HOF top ten talent. I will say though that I would stack the Cardinals pitching up against Yankees pitchers. That would be an interesting comparison.

EDIT: I forgot that the poster put Pete Rose at 3rd base. While he played the majority of his career in the OF, he did play 634 games at 3rd, so I guess that qualifies. I would still take the Cards offense because the outfield is clearly better and the bench is better. The Reds simply do not have a Lou Brock to come off the bench.

[757690]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

I'll take that action. Here is my all time Cards team:

1B: Pujols
2B: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Ozzie Smith
3B: Ken Boyer
C: Ted Simmons
LF: Stan Musial
CF: Jim Edmonds
RF: Enos Slaughter
UT: Mark McGwire
UT: Yadi Molina
UT: Joe Medwick
UT: Lou Brock
UT: Red Schoendienst
UT: Willie McGee (personal favorite)
SP: Bob Gibson
SP: Cy Young
SP: Steve Carlton
SP: Dizzy Dean
SP: Harry Brecheen
MR: Adam Wainwright
MR: Al Hrabosky
MR: Lee Smith
MR: Dennis Eckersley
MR: Todd Worrell
CP: Bruce Sutter
Manager: Tony LaRussa
GM: Branch Rickey

The only clear advantage I would see the All Reds team have over the All Cardinals team is at the Catcher position. Starting pitching isn't even close. Cards all the way on that front. I think the Cards actually have more players inducted into the HOF than the Yankees do.

Clearly the Reds are lacking in the pitching department, they are way behind many teams there.

But Rose isn't clearly better than Boyer? And Edmonds over Brock?

I also think we need to establish if we are talking about players that played for each team, or only the years that the players played for that team.

[RedsBaron]

Without even doing any research, I believe the Yankees would be able to field a team made up almost exclusively of Hall of Famers:
C-Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey, to say nothing of non-HOFers Elston Howard, Thurman Munson and Jorge Posada
1B-Lou Gehrig with non-HOFer Don Mattingly in reserve
2B-Joe Gordon and Tony Lazzeri
SS-Derek Jeter
3B-Alex Rodriguez
LF-Mickey Mantle
CF-Joe DiMaggio
RF-Babe Ruth

Reggie Jackson and Roger Maris would be among the outfielder reserves or DH.
The starting pitchers could include:
Whitey Ford
Red Ruffing
Lefty Gomez
Ron Guidry
Roger Clemens

Mariano Rivera would head up the bullpen, aided by Goose Gossage and Jop Page.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by 757690

Clearly the Reds are lacking in the pitching department, they are way behind many teams there.

But Rose isn't clearly better than Boyer? And Edmonds over Brock?

I also think we need to establish if we are talking about players that played for each team, or only the years that the players played for that team.

The reason why I put Edmonds over Brock is because Brock only played 115 games in Centerfield while Edmonds is arguably in the top 10 defensive CF's in the history of baseball. Edmonds also gives the Cardinals more pop. I love the speed threat that Lou poses coming off the bench. That is why he is a bench player for me. I constructed my lineup as to how well it would play on the field, not necessarily based on HOF status.

As I said before, I forgot that the poster put Pete Rose at 3rd. He is certainly a better hitter than Boyer was. I would still take the Cards lineup because their outfield is flat out better and their bench is deeper in my opinion.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Again, the only edge I would see the Reds having is at the catcher position. I will also even give you short stop, though Ozzie Smith's ability to save runs should certainly be note worthy. Every other position, the Cardinals players are better offensively.

I will also agree with you about the Yankees. That is just a who's who of HOF top ten talent. I will say though that I would stack the Cardinals pitching up against Yankees pitchers. That would be an interesting comparison.

EDIT: I forgot that the poster put Pete Rose at 3rd base. While he played the majority of his career in the OF, he did play 634 games at 3rd, so I guess that qualifies. I would still take the Cards offense because the outfield is clearly better and the bench is better. The Reds simply do not have a Lou Brock to come off the bench.

Well, I'd have the edge to the Reds at C, SS, 2B, 3B, CF and RF. Some of them are close, granted, but some aren't as close as you'd think. I'd also take the Reds bench over the Cards by a considerable margin. Lou Brock was a VERY good player, but Perez, Pinson, Roush...overall, much stronger IMO.

But like I said, the pitching makes it not matter one lick.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by RedsBaron

Without even doing any research, I believe the Yankees would be able to field a team made up almost exclusively of Hall of Famers:
C-Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey, to say nothing of non-HOFers Elston Howard, Thurman Munson and Jorge Posada
1B-Lou Gehrig with non-HOFer Don Mattingly in reserve
2B-Joe Gordon and Tony Lazzeri
SS-Derek Jeter
3B-Alex Rodriguez
LF-Mickey Mantle
CF-Joe DiMaggio
RF-Babe Ruth

Reggie Jackson and Roger AMris would be among the outfielder reserves or DH.
The starting pitchers could include:
Whitey Ford
Red Ruffing
Lefty Gomez
Ron Guidry
Roger Clemens

Mariano Rivera would head up the bullpen, aided by Goose Gossage and Jop Page.

ouch... that lineup is a world of pain. Honestly though, I thought their starting pitching would be better considering the history of that organization. There are other clubs all century pitchers I would take over that group (Dodgers, Cardinals, Giants, etc).

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Well, I'd have the edge to the Reds at C, SS, 2B, 3B, CF and RF. Some of them are close, granted, but some aren't as close as you'd think. I'd also take the Reds bench over the Cards by a considerable margin. Lou Brock was a VERY good player, but Perez, Pinson, Roush...overall, much stronger IMO.

But like I said, the pitching makes it not matter one lick.

Have you looked at Rogers Hornsby's stats compared to Joe Morgan? It isn't even close. Eric Davis vs. Jim Edmonds is not close, Robinson was a great player but he was no Stan Musial (Stan also played in RF so LF and RF are interchangeable). I will give you Roush but Pinson can't hold a candle to Medwick or Lou Brock. Bid McPhee and Red Schoendienst were essentially the same player so that's a wash.