Give me your depth charts for 2010, 2011, and 2012...

[Kingspoint]

Any volunteers?

I'll do mine in a few minutes.

[camisadelgolf]

Of all the Reds' minor league clubs?

[Kingspoint]

I meant of the positions for the Major League Club. Either do the positions or the pitcher or both. (or anything you like)

Much of this will be from the minor leagues, of course, especially the 2012 season.

[Kingspoint]

2010 Major League Club:

C Hernandez ($3M)
1B Votto (est $.48M)
2B Phillips ($6.75M)
3B Rolen ($7.67M)
SS Janish (est $.4M) or Free Agent
LF Dickerson (est $.44M)
CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
RF Bruce (est $.45M)
UI Sutton (est $.44M)
UO Heisey (est $.4M)

Mgr Baker ($3.5M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

---Alonso gets traded the 10-11 Winter for Starting Pitching as there's no place to play all of the people that should be playing. If something strange happens to Votto or Alonso, then Alonso doesn't get traded.

---Phillips gets traded between July 1st 2010 and December 15th 2010 for Starting Pitching

2011 Major League Club:

C Hanigan (est $.48M)
1B Votto (est $3M)
2B Valaika (est $.48M)
3B Rolen ($8.17M)
SS Cozart (est $.4M)
LF Stubbs (est $.48M)
CF Heisey (est $.44M)
RF Bruce (est $5M)
UI Francisco (est $.5M)
UO Frazier (est $.44M)

Mgr Sweet ($.8M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M

2012 Major League Club:

C Hanigan (est $.53M)
1B Votto (est $5M)
2B Valaika (est $.53M)
3B Francisco (est $.48M)
SS Cozart (est $.44M)
LF Stubbs (est $.6M)
CF Heisey (est $.5M)
RF Bruce (est $3M)
UI Soto (est $.4M)
UO Frazier (est $.44M)

Mgr Sweet ($1M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

Other than Shortstop, I see no need to add any position players over the next 3 seasons. Mesoraco takes over as the Starting Catcher in 2013.

That 2011 and 2012 lineups are courtesy of Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky and is loaded with talented players near the peaks of their career (Ages 25-30), while 1 or two years away from either Free Agency or Arbitration. The 2012 squad has a lot of experience on it.

I do think our Starting Pitching prospects throughout our organization is extremely weak and thin (another reason the Stewart/Roenicke for Rolen trade was illogical). I hope Alonso and Phillips are both traded for Starting Pitching. Hopefully, we can ride Cueto, Volquez and Wood for through 2015. But, that's too risky. We need again that much talent to get us through 2015, as two or three of the six (Wood, Cueto, Volquez and 3 others yet to be determined, but hopefully 2 will be obtained for Phillips, Alonso and Harang/Arroyo) will fail or get seriously injured. It would be a blessing if Buck or Thompson got healthy after their repeated setbacks and could pitch for the Major League club in 2011 and/or 2012.

----------------------------------------------------------------

[Kingspoint]

That is some inexpensive (cheap) payroll with pretty good expectations. It gets expensive in 2013 and 2014. But, for 2011 and 2012, money can be spent on pitching.

[Mario-Rijo]

2010
C - Hernandez
1B - Votto
2B - BP
SS - Janish
3B - Rolen
LF - Heisey
CF - Stubbs
RF - Bruce

C - Hanigan
IF - Rosales
OF - Dickerson
OF - Taveras
UT - Sutton

Mgr - Baker
GM - Jocketty

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Maloney

Cordero
Rhodes
Masset
Burton
Herrera
Owings
Lincoln

---BP gets dealt at the midseason point in '10 if we aren't in the thick of it. If we are still in earshot of a wildcard he won't get dealt at all is my hunch.


2011
C - Hanigan
1B - Votto
2B - BP
SS - Cozart
3B - Rolen
LF - Alonso
CF - Heisey
RF - Bruce

C - Denove
IF - Valaika
OF - Dickerson
OF - Stubbs
UT - Frazier

Mgr - LaRussa
GM - Jocketty

Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Volquez
Wood

Cordero
Masset
Herrera
Fisher
Ondrusek
Joseph
J. Smith


2012
C - Hanigan
1B - Votto
2B - BP
SS - Cozart
3B - Frazier
LF - Alonso
CF - Heisey
RF - Bruce

C - Denove
IF - Rolen
OF - Dickerson
OF - Stubbs
UT - Valaika

Mgr - LaRussa
GM - Jocketty

Cueto
Bailey
Volquez
Wood
Leake

Masset
Joseph
Fisher
Herrera
Ondrusek
J. Smith
Thurman


Rolen in a reserve role at best in '12 but somehow I suspect we'll be paying someone no longer contributing much if at all.

Harangs option not picked up after '10 and neither is Bronsons but they pit the 2 against each other and whoever signs the cheaper contract sticks around for another season. Harang takes his game out west and signs with San Diego for that season.

[Scrap Irony]

2010 is too far away at this point, let alone 2011. And the Reds are particularly difficult to forecast. Too many prospects who all play the same positions and too many expensive pieces that have to be decided on.

Ask me after 2010.

[redsmetz]

Kingspoint, you have Bruce's salaries as .450M in 2010, $5M in 2011 and $3M in 2012 Did you mean to say 500K the 2nd year?

[camisadelgolf]

There's a small chance that Jay Bruce will qualify as a Super Two and be eligible for arbitration in 2011.

[Plus Plus]

Originally Posted by Kingspoint

2010 Major League Club:

C Hernandez ($3M)
1B Votto (est $.48M)
2B Phillips ($6.75M)
3B Rolen ($7.67M)
SS Janish (est $.4M) or Free Agent
LF Dickerson (est $.44M)
CF Stubbs (est $.44M)
RF Bruce (est $.45M)
UI Sutton (est $.44M)
UO Heisey (est $.4M)

Mgr Baker ($3.5M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

---Alonso gets traded the 10-11 Winter for Starting Pitching as there's no place to play all of the people that should be playing. If something strange happens to Votto or Alonso, then Alonso doesn't get traded.

---Phillips gets traded between July 1st 2010 and December 15th 2010 for Starting Pitching

2011 Major League Club:

C Hanigan (est $.48M)
1B Votto (est $3M)
2B Valaika (est $.48M)
3B Rolen ($8.17M)
SS Cozart (est $.4M)
LF Stubbs (est $.48M)
CF Heisey (est $.44M)
RF Bruce (est $5M)
UI Francisco (est $.5M)
UO Frazier (est $.44M)

Mgr Sweet ($.8M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

----Rolen is traded for minor leaguers the winter of 11-12, and REDS eat 2/3rd's of his salary of $8.17M

2012 Major League Club:

C Hanigan (est $.53M)
1B Votto (est $5M)
2B Valaika (est $.53M)
3B Francisco (est $.48M)
SS Cozart (est $.44M)
LF Stubbs (est $.6M)
CF Heisey (est $.5M)
RF Bruce (est $3M)
UI Soto (est $.4M)
UO Frazier (est $.44M)

Mgr Sweet ($1M)
GM Jockety (Est $1.5M)

Other than Shortstop, I see no need to add any position players over the next 3 seasons. Mesoraco takes over as the Starting Catcher in 2013.

That 2011 and 2012 lineups are courtesy of Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky and is loaded with talented players near the peaks of their career (Ages 25-30), while 1 or two years away from either Free Agency or Arbitration. The 2012 squad has a lot of experience on it.

I do think our Starting Pitching prospects throughout our organization is extremely weak and thin (another reason the Stewart/Roenicke for Rolen trade was illogical). I hope Alonso and Phillips are both traded for Starting Pitching. Hopefully, we can ride Cueto, Volquez and Wood for through 2015. But, that's too risky. We need again that much talent to get us through 2015, as two or three of the six (Wood, Cueto, Volquez and 3 others yet to be determined, but hopefully 2 will be obtained for Phillips, Alonso and Harang/Arroyo) will fail or get seriously injured. It would be a blessing if Buck or Thompson got healthy after their repeated setbacks and could pitch for the Major League club in 2011 and/or 2012.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand why you have Heisey in CF rather than Stubbs (who is in LF) in 2011 and 2012- care to elaborate?

[Guacarock]

2010

C Hernandez
1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS S. Drew
3B Rolen
LF Byrnes
CF Stubbs
RF Bruce

Bench
Hanigan
Janish
Sutton
Dickerson
Nix
Owings (RH pinch hitter)

Rotation
Arroyo
Bailey
Cueto
Doug Davis
Maloney/McDonald or Owings

Bench
Maloney/McDonald or Owings (Spot Starter, Long Relief)
Herrera (LOOGY)
Lincoln or lesser paid reliever including Fisher, Del Rosario, Ondrusek (MR)
Burton (MR)
Rhodes (SU)
Masset (SU)
Sherrill (CL)

Total salaries: $64.4 million, plus $10 million paid to LA Dodgers or $74.4 million

2010 roster presumes off-season trades of Harang/Taveras and $10 million to Dodgers for Sherrill/McDonald, Cordero to Diamondbacks for Byrnes/S. Drew, and free-agent acquisition of Doug Davis on a two-year contract, $8 million per annum. LF Byrnes would become the highest paid Red at $11.67 million, but if he can't rebound using his speed/power to advantage at GABP, we don't hesitate to bench him and play Dickerson/Nix/Heisey in his place. He's the penance we pay to get S. Drew and get out from under the remainder of Cordero's contract.

2011

C Thole (Mets prospect)/Hanigan
1B Alonso
2B Frazier
SS S. Drew
3B Rolen
LF Votto
CF Stubbs
RF Bruce

Bench
Thole/Hanigan
Cozart
Shawn Bowman (Mets 3B prospect from Canada)
Heisey
Dickerson

Rotation
Bailey
Volquez
Doug Davis
Cueto
Niese/McDonald/Maloney/Wood

Bullpen
Niese/McDonald/Maloney/Wood (Spot Starter, Long Relief)
Herrera (LOOGY)
Del Rosario or Ondrusek (MR)
Bray or Viola (MR)
Burton (SU)
Sherrill (SU)
Masset (CL)

Roster presumes trade of Arroyo/Phillips to Mets for C Thole, 3B Bowman, SP Niese

2012

C Thole/Hanigan
1B Alonso
2B Frazier
SS S. Drew
3B Neftali Soto/Rolen
LF Adam Lind
CF Stubbs
RF Bruce

Bench
Thole/Hanigan
Cozart
Soto/Rolen
Heisey
Francisco

Rotation
Bailey
Leake
Volquez
Cueto
Niese/McDonald/Wood

Bullpen
Niese/McDonald/Wood (Sport Starter, Long Relief)
Herrera (LOOGY)
Del Rosario, Ondrusek or Boxberger (MR)
Bray or Viola (MR)
Joseph (SU)
Burton (SU)
Masset (CL)

Roster presumes a trade of Votto, Bowman and Sherrill to Blue Jays for Adam Lind and a pack of primo prospects from Toronto's Class A and AA teams

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

Kingspoint, you have Bruce's salaries as .450M in 2010, $5M in 2011 and $3M in 2012 Did you mean to say 500K the 2nd year?

Yes.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by Plus Plus

I don't understand why you have Heisey in CF rather than Stubbs (who is in LF) in 2011 and 2012- care to elaborate?

I like Stubbs' arm in LF, and I don't see much difference between the two when "collectively" they are in CF and LF. So, I'd put Heisey in CF.

[Kingspoint]

Nice trades Guacarock.

I nominate you for G.M.

You've put together a much better 2010, 2011, and 2012 roster than the REDS will actually have. Would love to see it come true.

[tripleaaaron]

2010
C. Hernandez/Hanigan
1B Votto
2B Phillips
3B Rolen
SS Trade Acquisition
LF Dickerson/Heisey
CF Stubbs
RF Bruce

SP1 Arroyo
SP2 Cueto
SP3 Bailey
SP4 Maloney
SP5 Wood or Acquisition
SP6 Volquez
CL Cordero
Harang is traded along with Alonso going during this season or shortly after.

2011
C. Hanigan/Hernandez
1B Votto
2B Frazier
3B Rolen
SS Acquisition/Cozart
LF Heisey
CF Stubbs
RF Bruce
Francisco/Valaika/Dickerson in large roles off the bench.

SP1 Arroyo
SP2 Volquez
SP3 Cueto
SP4 Bailey
SP5 Maloney/Leake/Wood
CL Massett
Phillips is traded as well as Alonso if he wasn't already.

2012
C Hanigan/Mesoraco
1B Votto
2B Valaika
3B Frazier
SS Acquisition/ Cozart
LF Heisey
CF Stubbs
RF Bruce
Francisco plays large role off the bench with Rolen. Frazier goes more into a supersub role but logs the most time at 3B.

SP1 Volquez
SP2 Cueto
SP3 Bailey
SP4 Leake
SP5 Wood/Maloney
CL. Massett