Backwards K's

[mrherd05]

Unfreaking believable

[Todd Gack]

You talking about Jay's bases loaded AB?

[malcontent]

But Stubbs did swing at strike 2, didn't he?

Seriously, though, if I'm the manager he'd be NOTHING but a defensive replacement and PR.

I've never seen anything like the way he takes called third strikes, especially on non-full counts.

He's flat-out killing this team. And tonite he makes one of the most fundamental running mistakes you can make, getting nailed at 3B with 0 outs. With the pitcher coming up, no less! On the replay you could see he hesitated before he took off, but went anyway.

And it does not matter whether the ump got the call right, or not, Einsteins. You don't go in that situation.

I don't know what people think they can get for him in a trade. But if they think they can get more than Michael Brantley, they're kidding themselves.

If Stubbs ever had any chance to make himself a decent player, that chance ended when the Reds re-upped his enabler, who refuses to confront him on anything.

[Jamz]

It definitely matters that the ump got the call wrong. Drew's game is speed and ge was very clearly safe. It should have been a runner on first and third with the pitcher up and no outs. Much better than a runner on first and second.

Don't blame Drew for the good things he does and gets screwed out of. He obviously needs an approach change, but that play was legit.

[malcontent]

Originally Posted by Jamz

It definitely matters that the ump got the call wrong. Drew's game is speed and ge was very clearly safe. It should have been a runner on first and third with the pitcher up and no outs. Much better than a runner on first and second.

Don't blame Drew for the good things he does and gets screwed out of. He obviously needs an approach change, but that play was legit.

Exactly how is it "much better" when the pitcher....WHO WOULD VERY LIKELY BE ASKED TO BUNT....was up next?

[justincredible]

Originally Posted by malcontent

Exactly how is it "much better" when the pitcher....WHO WOULD VERY LIKELY BE ASKED TO BUNT....was up next?

Pretty simple, Einstein.

Cueto would've been up there bunting to move the runners with Stubbs on 2nd. There is no guarantee that he gets Stubbs to 3rd. Best case you are looking at 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. Worst case you are looking at 1st and 2nd with 1 out or even 3rd with 2 outs.

[lidspinner]

I agree that you cannot beat Drew up when the Ump screwed him but that is the gaem we play, human error is a part of the umps umping our games....Drew has to know it that situation with Beltran throwing the ball that you do not run....you have the pitcher coming up who will more than likely sac you over to 3rd....you have to think like a "small ball" team when your team is struggling like we have been.....its eary in the game so I dont discredit Drew for trying to make something happen but I do feel the need to beat him down for going against typical fundamentals in NOT making the 1st out at 3rd base, that is something we learn in T-Ball, you do not make the 1st out at 3rd base in any situation....NEVER, unless its a force.....

on one hand Dusty wants to play sabermetric baseball, and on drews hand he wants to not play that style, both the manager and players need to be on the same page when it comes to situations like this.....this is the 1st time this has happened all year so its not a major issue yet, if it continues then Drew needs to be sent down or traded or something....he cannot continue to kill this team night in and night out.....

Again, he deserves a pass for trying to make something happen and actually being safe, getting screwed by the ump is tough when your team is struggling....but Drew needs to realize a cannon is out there waiting to throw him out....not smart baseball in my book on all accounts..

[texasdave]

Drew was aggressive. Drew was safe. And yet I still think the smarter play is for him to stop at second and get bunted over to third. It's a simple difference of opinion.

[malcontent]

Originally Posted by justincredible

Pretty simple, Einstein.

Cueto would've been up there bunting to move the runners with Stubbs on 2nd. There is no guarantee that he gets Stubbs to 3rd. Best case you are looking at 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. Worst case you are looking at 1st and 2nd with 1 out or even 3rd with 2 outs.

Right. No guarantee he gets Stubbs to 3B.

But the best case scenario for you (with a good non-squeeze bunt) is the same, runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out.

Worst case is exactly what occurred. Runner on first with 1 out.

BTW, Beltran had a perfect bounce. Actually a pretty easy play.

[justincredible]

Originally Posted by malcontent

Right. No guarantee he gets Stubbs to 3B.

But the best case scenario for you (with a good non-squeeze bunt) is the same, runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out.

Worst case is exactly what occurred. Runner on first with 1 out.

BTW, Beltran had a perfect bounce. Actually a pretty easy play.

Who says Cueto bunts with Stubbs on 3rd and no outs? Also, as easy as the play was Stubbs was still safe.

[malcontent]

Originally Posted by justincredible

Who says Cueto bunts with Stubbs on 3rd and no outs? Also, as easy as the play was Stubbs was still safe.

I agree a bunt isn't a given, but with Baker the manager, I'd certainly expect him to give up the out with a SH.

I saw the replay and if Stubbs was safe, it certainly wasn't by much.

Ball beat him to the bag, and I'd venture that most umps ring him up on such a close play.

Now, if he slid head-first coming in with his right hand and not exposed a leg...

But I don't think Stubbs does that.

[uteroasis]

It's always tough to stomach a strikeout when the bat stays on the shoulders and runners are in scoring position--absolutely. But Lohse threw some nasty pitches over that stretch. 93mph at the knees catching the inside black? If you're looking breaking ball, there is no time to adjust for that.

That said, when all you need to do is move the runners over, hit the first pitch you can get wood on and do your job. The home runs aren't coming, so some intelligent hitting would be more than welcome.

[krm1580]

While I understand you need to protect the plate with 2 strikes, in fairness the called strike 3 in the 4th inning to both Rolen and Bruce showed as being balls and that was on the St Louis feed.

Ironically when I went to Game Day to see what they had the pitches as, there is a scout comment that says "Kyle Lohse is getting a generous strike zone this inning from home plate ump Tony Randazzo."

[texasdave]

Originally Posted by uteroasis

It's always tough to stomach a strikeout when the bat stays on the shoulders and runners are in scoring position--absolutely. But Lohse threw some nasty pitches over that stretch. 93mph at the knees catching the inside black? If you're looking breaking ball, there is no time to adjust for that.

That said, when all you need to do is move the runners over, hit the first pitch you can get wood on and do your job. The home runs aren't coming, so some intelligent hitting would be more than welcome.

Just one person's opinion, but Drew Stubbs should never take a called third strike. I understand that Kyle Lohse made some nasty pitches there. I also understand people saying you might as well take it because you aren't going to do much with it. But a speedster like Stubbs is the exception to that rule. If he manages a nubber or weakly hit ground ball, the chances are pretty solid that he beats it out. A steal of second and he is in scoring position. His speed is his major weapon. Use it. Make some contact and run like your hair is aflame. It beats walking slowly back to the dugout time after time after time.

All players need to exploit their strengths.

[malcontent]

I'm past discussing Stubbs' merits and faults, what he should or should not be doing.

I've seen him take far, far too many called third strikes.

Even on 0-2 and 1-2 counts, when he absolutely needed to be protecting the plate.

I've heard too many excuses from him, a total unwillingness to change his approach.

And a denial of the reality that what he's been doing just isn't cutting it.

Now I just want him gone in the worst way.

Like Gomes and Freel before him.

Like I want Baker gone.