UK Basketball 8th Edition

[jmac]

Originally Posted by TeamSelig

What is wrong with us? Are we just missing a good leader?

My opinion is several things.

First : we didnt have that veteran to bridge any youth to experience like we have had with the other Cal teams. No Patterson/Stevenson/Miller/Harrellson etc. Even last year's team was not "all" freshmen as Jones and Lamb were back for their second season.

second: I think this group just hasnt lived up to potential that we were expecting.

Noel- This kid did. Excellent defender who stopped or altered many inside shots. Played with desire every play.

Harrow- has shown signs but not what I expected from a kid who actually has 2 years now under Cal counting going up against Teague in practice last year.

Poythress- dominated in high school but against smaller guys. I think he thought everything would come easy in college and found otherwise.

Goodwin- I really dont know what they were seeing with him. I read he had an exceptional outside shot and I sure havent seen that. He draws fouls (when he isnt charging) and then only shoots 60 % or so at the FT line.

Last years team....was just that....a "team". Some of the main cogs on this team want their points etc.

Down thru the years, UK has always had some kids who just didnt live up to the hype. Growing up in the 80's, I seen guys like Richard Madison, Brett Bearup etc who came to KY with high hopes but never turned into the college players we hoped.
Alot of those guys were 1 per class where this year, we really have 3 if you want to count Harrow.
I think this is just a case where a class brought in turns out to not "get it".
This years results vs last years will give Coach Cal a little future teaching lesson on what his system could produce. No I dont mean always winning a championship but at least being a Top 15 or so team even in a down year.

[Assembly Hall]

I apologize to WMR if he feels like I am trying to tell UK fans how to root for their team. I suppose I just should have come on here and said it couldnt happen to a better team and UK sucks, but I didnt and wont. Yes, I am an IU fan, but I also love the sport of college basketball and watch quite a bit of it. I try to be objective as best I can, and was just saying that there is still hope for the Wildcats. UConn looked bad a few years back and put it together, NC State battled injuries all season long found a way to get into the tournament and won it all, Villanova surprised the masses, and yes my Hoosiers looked pitiful heading into Big 10 play in '81, how many big time programs get beat by Texas-Pan American? My sincerest apologies for expressing some upbeat thoughts.

Now to some input.........The 'Cats just havent meshed together. There are several reasons for it, but the fact is they just aint playing good basketball. To me the thing that stands out most is that they are not looking good in a very weak conference, and that is bad.

[cumberlandreds]

Originally Posted by TeamSelig

What is wrong with us? Are we just missing a good leader?

That and a lot more. Three of the four freshman were way overrated. The point guard replacement was way overrated too and has not responed at all as the season has gone forward. The team as a whole are just not good smart basketball players. Maybe good athletically but not good at the game. Probably many other things too. This is the bad result of one and dones. You can get a batch of them who were overrated and really are typical freshman who won't be a big help for another year or two. Last year we saw the ultimate result in the one and dones. Just have to take the good and the bad of this style of recruiting.

[IslandRed]

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

This is the bad result of one and dones. You can get a batch of them who were overrated and really are typical freshman who won't be a big help for another year or two. Last year we saw the ultimate result in the one and dones. Just have to take the good and the bad of this style of recruiting.

Exactly. Last year's team put the lie to people who said a freshmen-centric team couldn't win a title; this year's team reminds us why freshmen-centric teams usually don't. It happens. At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future.

But being the first of his one-and-done-heavy classes that didn't really pan out (at least so far, and with Noel obviously excepted), it'll be interesting to see what those guys do with the new recruiting class coming in. Stay and fight for playing time? Transfer? Go pro when clearly not ready?

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

No they don't. Ask WMR, he'll tell you. Those "UK fans" lashing out at Cal are just IU and UL fans posing as UK fans. No one dumb ever rooted for UK in the history of ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You sure do love your straw men!

[WMR]

Originally Posted by IslandRed

Exactly. Last year's team put the lie to people who said a freshmen-centric team couldn't win a title; this year's team reminds us why freshmen-centric teams usually don't. It happens. At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future.

But being the first of his one-and-done-heavy classes that didn't really pan out (at least so far, and with Noel obviously excepted), it'll be interesting to see what those guys do with the new recruiting class coming in. Stay and fight for playing time? Transfer? Go pro when clearly not ready?

Good post, I'm wondering the same.

If I had to guess I would say Goodwin leaves even if he's a second round pick. I'm so hesitant to say I don't want a FRESHMAN to come back because there can be tremendous growth from frosh to soph, but Goodwin has been playing for himself all season long.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

I don't think Tennessee athletics has ever been lower but even at such a point, it's nice to see that they can still make my day. I know what colors I'll be wearing tonight.

Let's hear it for the Orange! Biggest win EVER over UK...

1-7 now vs Cal and UK...

Is that banner worthy? Could make that lone sweet 16 banner not feel quite so lonely in the Thompson boling rafters.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by WMR

1-7 now vs Cal and UK...

Is that banner worthy? Could make that lone sweet 16 banner not feel quite so lonely in the Thompson boling rafters.

1-7, hell you know what it's like to get excited after being one and 20 something in football. Yes, a 30 pt win over yUK is always something to get excited about. As for banners in the arena, I wouldn't know. I've never been there so I don't get jollies gazing at them. As for your beloved UK Wildcats, there's no excuse for that performance. I don't care that you lost one player. You still had 10x the talent of your opponent.

[jmac]

Originally Posted by IslandRed

Exactly. Last year's team put the lie to people who said a freshmen-centric team couldn't win a title; this year's team reminds us why freshmen-centric teams usually don't. It happens. At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future.

But being the first of his one-and-done-heavy classes that didn't really pan out (at least so far, and with Noel obviously excepted), it'll be interesting to see what those guys do with the new recruiting class coming in. Stay and fight for playing time? Transfer? Go pro when clearly not ready?

I want to focus a moment on the highlighted. You're right to a point but sometimes we as fans and the media as well call last year's group basically a "one and done" freshman class.
Granted Davis and Gilchrist went 1 and 2 in the draft but a lineup last season of Davis/Gilchrist/Wiljter/Miller and Teague probably doesnt win it all.
We had 2 "good" returning soph's in Lamb and Jones. While these guys may never be NBA stars , they were good college players who blended in well.
If we had any 2 of the ones that left early last year on this year's team, we are having a totally different conversation right now.
Imagine right now a lineup of Noel-Gilchrist-Poythress-Goodwin-Teague and then having Mays and Wiljter as bench guys.

I like this satement you made : " At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future".
I think like you, Cal may realize he needs 1 or 2 Wiltjers in every class to be there at least 2-3 years.

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by jmac

I want to focus a moment on the highlighted. You're right to a point but sometimes we as fans and the media as well call last year's group basically a "one and done" freshman class.
Granted Davis and Gilchrist went 1 and 2 in the draft but a lineup last season of Davis/Gilchrist/Wiljter/Miller and Teague probably doesnt win it all.
We had 2 "good" returning soph's in Lamb and Jones. While these guys may never be NBA stars , they were good college players who blended in well.
If we had any 2 of the ones that left early last year on this year's team, we are having a totally different conversation right now.
Imagine right now a lineup of Noel-Gilchrist-Poythress-Goodwin-Teague and then having Mays and Wiljter as bench guys.

I like this satement you made : " At minimum, Calipari's probably learned a few things he can apply to his choice of recruiting targets in the future".
I think like you, Cal may realize he needs 1 or 2 Wiltjers in every class to be there at least 2-3 years.

Correct. Quick math says returning players accounted for 36.8 PPG last year and this year that's 13.9 PPG, counting Harrow as a first year player.

I think you make a great point regarding Cal wanting a Wiltjer or Darius Miller type player or two in every class, but that raises another semi-difficulty. He would be selling different "dreams" and expectations to kids in the same recruiting class. He's set the bar so high with sending kids to the NBA, particularly after only one year, that it might be difficult to "downgrade" to a kid not ranked quite as high and sell him on staying 2-3 (4!?!?!?) years before moving on. Would a kid want to come there for 2-3 years, knowing he'll be competing for time, every year, with other kids who are going to UK mostly to make their way to the NBA?

It's working with Wiltjer. That kid has improved a ton and may put himself in a viable spot to get drafted in a decent slot. Cauley-Stein could also be another interesting test case. I'm seeing his draft projections rising for THIS year.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by WMR

You sure do love your straw men!

Just taking the ridiculousness of some of your posts to the extreme. You know you think it's funny.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

1-7, hell you know what it's like to get excited after being one and 20 something in football. Yes, a 30 pt win over yUK is always something to get excited about. As for banners in the arena, I wouldn't know. I've never been there so I don't get jollies gazing at them. As for your beloved UK Wildcats, there's no excuse for that performance. I don't care that you lost one player. You still had 10x the talent of your opponent.

How have you never taken in a game at TBA??? You should make it a point to go next season when UK comes to Kville. The UT bball crowd gets up for UK like none other.

This UK team sans Noel is nowhere close to 10x as talented as UT. We're seeing just how overrated Goodwin and Poythress were heading into the season. These are not superstar freshmen like John Wall, MKG, or Anthony Davis. These guys have played like freshmen, and freshmen very often play BAD.

Poythress, for instance, steps out of bounds AT LEAST ONCE every game. Who does that? I've never seen anything like it in my life.

UT had a home court frothing at the mouth and they came out very confident while UK came out like a bunch of scared wusses and that beatdown is the result.

And it's not like UT NEVER beats UK at bball, pretty big difference between 1-7 versus a 26 year losing streak. And regular season games are obviously much more important in football than in bball. But trust me, for UK it is ultimately a compliment. Hell the Hoosiers commemorated their regular season victory over UK on the damn Bloomington phonebook!! Strangely there was no mention of the NCAA Tournament rematch.

UK is everyone's Super Bowl and always will be. That's what these kids playing for UK don't get. They want to mope and feel sorry for themselves. They still, even now, don't really understand how badly every team they play wants to beat Defending National Champion Kentucky.

I'm really hopeful for next year's class. Part of me thinks Poythress could be really, really good as a sophomore, I just don't want to lose Randle and/or Wiggins if they want to come here but worry about seeing enough clock depending on who doesn't go pro. Dakari Johnson and WCS would be an amazing center combo.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Just taking the ridiculousness of some of your posts to the extreme. You know you think it's funny.

I could never be mad at you.

We could take a little trip over to Cats Illustrated and I could point out plenty of absolutely braindead UK fans.

Then again, it's probably just UL or IU Trolls trying to make us look bad.

[REDblooded]

Still love the free pass for Cal... It's his team, he recruited it, and he hasn't done a very good job of holding it together. To be quite frank, before Noel went down, you really didn't have a tournament team. Their only win was over Ole Miss, and that's looking less and less tournament worthy by the minute.

This system has been the plan the whole time. The very design of it lends itself to not having meaningful depth and veteran leadership. It's not an accident, it CALIPARI'S PLAN. Quit making excuses for the guy.

[jmac]

Originally Posted by dabvu2498

I think you make a great point regarding Cal wanting a Wiltjer or Darius Miller type player or two in every class, but that raises another semi-difficulty. He would be selling different "dreams" and expectations to kids in the same recruiting class. He's set the bar so high with sending kids to the NBA, particularly after only one year, that it might be difficult to "downgrade" to a kid not ranked quite as high and sell him on staying 2-3 (4!?!?!?) years before moving on. Would a kid want to come there for 2-3 years, knowing he'll be competing for time, every year, with other kids who are going to UK mostly to make their way to the NBA?
.

Thats an excellent point and to back up what you said, he does "sell" the NBA dream and I'm 90 % sure the only reason Lamb/Jones came back was due to the lockout situation. Without that, they would more than likely have left.

All the kids next season with the exception of probably Willis, I think they expect to leave early which would put them back at square one.
With this class already done, it will be interesting to see if Cal alters his philosophy in any way in future recruiting.