Joey Votto....Who is better? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Ironman92 · 05-31-2012, 03:06 PM

With some players becoming injured a little too often and other stars starting to be streaky from year to year and with Votto's improvement on defense.....who in baseball is better than Joey Votto? You can argue him over everyone if you include injury/playing everyday issues.

I believe Josh Hamilton and Matt Kemp are better....but Kemp is going to miss a bunch this year to injury and Hamilton is always close to the DL....but healthy I think these two are all-around a little better.

Carlos Gonzalez and Ryan Braun are right in the same category as Votto. Yes, Braun has the stuff to help him we believe....but is he still doing them? He's not dropping off this year and his base running is better than Votto.

Guys that are sometimes better but either have major injuries or are just not as consistent: Jose Bautista, David Wright, Albert Pujols and Evan Longoria.

Guys that are very close: Robinson Cano, Jacoby Ellsbury, Troy Tulowitzki.

Look out....on their way somewhere towards the top.....Giancarlo Stanton

Talent stud....Mike Trout

Pitchers are too hard to compare.

herbdizzle · 05-31-2012, 03:22 PM

I actually think Votto may be the best consistently high performing player in all of MLB. There are several players that have higher ceiling than JV. Off the top of my head I would list Kemp, Hamilton, Batista, & Pujols as higher talent ceilings than Joey. However, of those four the only one I would take over Votto is Kemp. The others have age or injury issues.

I think there are several young players such as Longoria, Harper, Trout, Stanton, Ellsbury, Braun that can reach Votto's level if they show consistency for another couple years. That's why I was behind the Reds extension because it insures we have an MVP caliber talent every year for a decade; a luxury few teams have.

Ironman92 · 05-31-2012, 03:24 PM

Braun has been great as long as Votto has.

brm7675 · 05-31-2012, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman92

Braun has been great as long as Votto has.

Heck think how much better Votto would have been had he used what Braun used...

Ironman92 · 05-31-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brm7675

Heck think how much better Votto would have been had he used what Braun used...

Again....is Braun using now? Would he be that dumb? His numbers aren't down at all.

R_Webb18 · 05-31-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman92

Again....is Braun using now? Would he be that dumb? His numbers aren't down at all.

was it dumb before?

Ironman92 · 05-31-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Webb18

was it dumb before?

It would be another level of dumb. He asterisked his asterisk from last year.....he's got the gigantic contract....why would he cheat knowing he's being closely watched.

Maybe Votto's cheating.....they were up 8-1 the other night and he showed some roid rage.

brm7675 · 05-31-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman92

Again....is Braun using now? Would he be that dumb? His numbers aren't down at all.

He got away with it, why not keep using?

brm7675 · 05-31-2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman92

It would be another level of dumb. He asterisked his asterisk from last year.....he's got the gigantic contract....why would he cheat knowing he's being closely watched.

Maybe Votto's cheating.....they were up 8-1 the other night and he showed some roid rage.

Has votto ever tested positive? Braun has...HUGE difference.

Ironman92 · 05-31-2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brm7675

He got away with it, why not keep using?

For the reasons I already stated.

Ironman92 · 05-31-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brm7675

Has votto ever tested positive? Braun has...HUGE difference.

Wasn't Braun's results something like 8 times higher than anyone's ever tested?

Ironman92 · 05-31-2012, 05:40 PM

Anyways....my original point was in reponse to herbdizzle simply stating he's been very good as long as Votto....actually longer. He said he had the potential with a couple more years.

I hate all the extra stuff and especially the illegal. I love baseball and it's numbers....and the best players....the steroids/hgh, whatever....players have benefitted greatly but no one knows how much and that bothers me. Players like Bonds had 3 MVP before any signs of cheating. Rafael Palmeiro was clean to everyone.....then all of a sudden he's guilty....but what about all the others....a small % got drilled but guys like Luis Gonzalez, Nomar, Mo Vaughn, Albert Belle, Jeff Bagwell, Eric Gagne and others.....nothing.

brm7675 · 05-31-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman92

Wasn't Braun's results something like 8 times higher than anyone's ever tested?

So...it was a sealed test, to think he wasn't using something is just being naive in my opinion. Why didn't he fight to prove the test was wrong, he didn't he fought the way it was handled, not the results.

drowg14 · 05-31-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironman92

With some players becoming injured a little too often and other stars starting to be streaky from year to year and with Votto's improvement on defense.....who in baseball is better than Joey Votto? You can argue him over everyone if you include injury/playing everyday issues.

I believe Josh Hamilton and Matt Kemp are better....but Kemp is going to miss a bunch this year to injury and Hamilton is always close to the DL....but healthy I think these two are all-around a little better.

Carlos Gonzalez and Ryan Braun are right in the same category as Votto. Yes, Braun has the stuff to help him we believe....but is he still doing them? He's not dropping off this year and his base running is better than Votto.

Guys that are sometimes better but either have major injuries or are just not as consistent: Jose Bautista, David Wright, Albert Pujols and Evan Longoria.

Guys that are very close: Robinson Cano, Jacoby Ellsbury, Troy Tulowitzki.

Look out....on their way somewhere towards the top.....Giancarlo Stanton

Talent stud....Mike Trout

Pitchers are too hard to compare.

In my opinion David Wright should not be on this list. Yes, he can be very good, but his bad is pretty bad. And his BABIP right now is pretty inflated.

In addition, I would add Adrian Gonzalez and Paul Konerko, at least to the "guys that are very close" I would also add McCutchen to "Look out"

Otherwise, good post.

Assembly Hall · 05-31-2012, 06:32 PM

I would add Castro of the Cubs to that list............

05-31-2012, 03:06 PM	#1
Ironman92 Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,084	Joey Votto....Who is better? With some players becoming injured a little too often and other stars starting to be streaky from year to year and with Votto's improvement on defense.....who in baseball is better than Joey Votto? You can argue him over everyone if you include injury/playing everyday issues. I believe Josh Hamilton and Matt Kemp are better....but Kemp is going to miss a bunch this year to injury and Hamilton is always close to the DL....but healthy I think these two are all-around a little better. Carlos Gonzalez and Ryan Braun are right in the same category as Votto. Yes, Braun has the stuff to help him we believe....but is he still doing them? He's not dropping off this year and his base running is better than Votto. Guys that are sometimes better but either have major injuries or are just not as consistent: Jose Bautista, David Wright, Albert Pujols and Evan Longoria. Guys that are very close: Robinson Cano, Jacoby Ellsbury, Troy Tulowitzki. Look out....on their way somewhere towards the top.....Giancarlo Stanton Talent stud....Mike Trout Pitchers are too hard to compare.

05-31-2012, 03:22 PM	#2
herbdizzle Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 118	Re: Joey Votto....Who is better? I actually think Votto may be the best consistently high performing player in all of MLB. There are several players that have higher ceiling than JV. Off the top of my head I would list Kemp, Hamilton, Batista, & Pujols as higher talent ceilings than Joey. However, of those four the only one I would take over Votto is Kemp. The others have age or injury issues. I think there are several young players such as Longoria, Harper, Trout, Stanton, Ellsbury, Braun that can reach Votto's level if they show consistency for another couple years. That's why I was behind the Reds extension because it insures we have an MVP caliber talent every year for a decade; a luxury few teams have.

05-31-2012, 06:32 PM	#15
Assembly Hall We are back! Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Warsaw, IN Posts: 675	Re: Joey Votto....Who is better? I would add Castro of the Cubs to that list............ __________________ ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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05-31-2012, 03:24 PM	#3
Ironman92 Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,084	Braun has been great as long as Votto has.

05-31-2012, 05:40 PM	#12
Ironman92 Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,084	Anyways....my original point was in reponse to herbdizzle simply stating he's been very good as long as Votto....actually longer. He said he had the potential with a couple more years. I hate all the extra stuff and especially the illegal. I love baseball and it's numbers....and the best players....the steroids/hgh, whatever....players have benefitted greatly but no one knows how much and that bothers me. Players like Bonds had 3 MVP before any signs of cheating. Rafael Palmeiro was clean to everyone.....then all of a sudden he's guilty....but what about all the others....a small % got drilled but guys like Luis Gonzalez, Nomar, Mo Vaughn, Albert Belle, Jeff Bagwell, Eric Gagne and others.....nothing.