Swap Ondrusek and Simon?

[Superdude]

This post comes with all the heated frustration of a sundeck reactionary thread, but after checking the numbers, I figured there was enough objective evidence to bear out my point and make this a thread worthy topic...and I'm REALLY angry!!!!

Ondrusek performed well as a high leverage set up man early in the year, but I'm pretty much done watching this 6th inning reliever miscast into these types of situations. His K rate is hovering under 6 and his control isn't doing him any favors either. Just brings nothing to the table to warrant this much trust.

Simon, on the other hand, seems to have found some kind of niche in the bullpen. Every time Dusty puts him in, he throws strikes, has good stuff, and misses bats. Sounds like a late inning reliever to me.

So I've got the petition and back up mob torches in my garage...who's with me?!

[Plus Plus]

The bigger problem in this specific game was the absolutely horrifying use of Arredondo.

That being said, I trust Ondrusek less the more that I watch him play.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Plus Plus

The bigger problem in this specific game was the absolutely horrifying use of Arredondo.

That being said, I trust Ondrusek less the more that I watch him play.

His FIP, not including tonight, is the highest in the whole pen by 0.78. I know there's no chance this gets addressed anytime soon because his ERA is still shiny, but tonight was just maddening. A leadoff hitter facing a three run deficit and batting .210 should never in a million years walk on four pitches.

[Kc61]

Arredondo against Cabrera in that spot in the seventh inning made perfect sense to me. He just didn't do the job.

Ondrusek looked better this weekend. He wasn't bad tonight, he got them out of the 7th, then in the 8th, three runs up, he allowed a walk and a bloop. Not a disaster in my book, Chapman just had some bad luck.

Generally, Baker is relying too much on four relievers. He needs to use Simon and Lecure more in the later innings, and to use the "big four" less. Over the last week I've started to see overuse of the main four relievers which is a bad trend and is impairing their effectiveness.

[Crumbley]

I'd like to see more of Hoover.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by Plus Plus

The bigger problem in this specific game was the absolutely horrifying use of Arredondo.

And Marshall. Tonight was on Dusty.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by reds44

And Marshall. Tonight was on Dusty.

Right, Dusty walked Cabrera and gave up the hit to Fielder.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Superdude

This post comes with all the heated frustration of a sundeck reactionary thread, but after checking the numbers, I figured there was enough objective evidence to bear out my point and make this a thread worthy topic...and I'm REALLY angry!!!!

Ondrusek performed well as a high leverage set up man early in the year, but I'm pretty much done watching this 6th inning reliever miscast into these types of situations. His K rate is hovering under 6 and his control isn't doing him any favors either. Just brings nothing to the table to warrant this much trust.

Simon, on the other hand, seems to have found some kind of niche in the bullpen. Every time Dusty puts him in, he throws strikes, has good stuff, and misses bats. Sounds like a late inning reliever to me.

So I've got the petition and back up mob torches in my garage...who's with me?!

Agree with the low K, high walk, BABIP fueled effectiveness asessment for Ondrusek. I have a feeling he's the guy most likely to go south. I'm hoping for the team to mix all three of Lecure, Simon and Hoover into the late innng mix more often. I suspect Lecure will prove to be the best of them, but I'd give them all a try. Arredondo needs a bit more rest too. With Bray rehabbing and a lot of teams needing bullpen depth, I wonder if Ondrusek could be the guy to deal to address the LH platoon OF that the team really needs.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by reds44

And Marshall. Tonight was on Dusty.

Why do you say that?

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Why do you say that?

Im usually not a big hammer on Dusty guy but I thought he mismanaged the game last night. What was shocking is he used up his top 3 guys to record 1 out in the 7th. I wouldn't have yanked Arredondo to face fielder and then wouldn't have yanked Marshall to face Young. It was a TLR managed game something Dusty doesn't done and hasn't done during his tenure as a Red. Going to Chapman in the 8th wasn't a big deal except that everything went wrong when he got into the game. The grazing of a HBP then the double down the line that kicked up chalk at best.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Im usually not a big hammer on Dusty guy but I thought he mismanaged the game last night. What was shocking is he used up his top 3 guys to record 1 out in the 7th. I wouldn't have yanked Arredondo to face fielder and then wouldn't have yanked Marshall to face Young. It was a TLR managed game something Dusty doesn't done and hasn't done during his tenure as a Red. Going to Chapman in the 8th wasn't a big deal except that everything went wrong when he got into the game. The grazing of a HBP then the double down the line that kicked up chalk at best.

If the relivers had recored outs everyone would have thought baker had done the right think.

It's not like we ran out of relievers or anything.

Each relief change resulted in a better match up for us.

If Arredondo had given up hits to Fielder and Young everyone would have complained.

The fact is the moves look bad because the relievers didn't get the job done.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

If the relivers had recored outs everyone would have thought baker had done the right think.

It's not like we ran out of relievers or anything.

Each relief change resulted in a better match up for us.

If Arredondo had given up hits to Fielder and Young everyone would have complained.

The fact is the moves look bad because the relievers didn't get the job done.

Arredondo walked Cabrera, Marshall gave up a hit to Fielder, then Ondrusek came in to face Young. Dusty has never really managed that way, especially with his top 3 high leverage relievers, guys who you expect to face one batter or more. If you wanted to bring Marshall into face Fielder then fine, but give him Young to get out as well. It was just a couple of weeks ago that you would bring Marshall into face three hitters in the ninth regardless of handedness, now he is only good enough to face one? Cabrera and Fielder I can see making situational changes, but Young?

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Arredondo walked Cabrera, Marshall gave up a hit to Fielder, then Ondrusek came in to face Young. Dusty has never really managed that way, especially with his top 3 high leverage relievers, guys who you expect to face one batter or more. If you wanted to bring Marshall into face Fielder then fine, but give him Young to get out as well. It was just a couple of weeks ago that you would bring Marshall into face three hitters in the ninth regardless of handedness, now he is only good enough to face one? Cabrera and Fielder I can see making situational changes, but Young?

This. Using Marshall as a LOOGY is just poor managing.

[Chip R]

A little over a month ago, people wanted Ondrusek to be the closer.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Arredondo walked Cabrera, Marshall gave up a hit to Fielder, then Ondrusek came in to face Young. Dusty has never really managed that way, especially with his top 3 high leverage relievers, guys who you expect to face one batter or more. If you wanted to bring Marshall into face Fielder then fine, but give him Young to get out as well. It was just a couple of weeks ago that you would bring Marshall into face three hitters in the ninth regardless of handedness, now he is only good enough to face one? Cabrera and Fielder I can see making situational changes, but Young?

But keeping those guys in the game longer shouldn't have increased our chances of winning.

Each resulted in a better match up for us, and we didn't run out of pitchers.

Posters arguing about leaving Marshall in longer isn't about him having a better chance of getting Young out. It's about Ondrusek giving up a walk and a hit to open the 8th.

Baker should have chosen a different route to take becuase this one didn't work. I think that's the argument. I don't think anyone is saying that he put inferior choices in there to face certain batters.

Again, it's not like he ran out of pitchers.