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Old 07-18-2012, 09:37 PM   #181
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
Baker pulling Mr. Arredondo, likely for Logan Ondrusek.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:49 PM   #182
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
Stubbs .222/.293/.367
Cozart .240/.287/.369
Bruce .244/.319/.491
Ludwick .238/.310/.498
Rolen .199/.267/.308

How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate. Even in 1982, every starting Red had an OBP of over .300 except Paul Householder.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:54 PM   #183
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
Stubbs .222/.293/.367
Cozart .240/.287/.369
Bruce .244/.319/.491
Ludwick .238/.310/.498
Rolen .199/.267/.308

How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate.
2 of those things are not like the other things.
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"Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:54 PM   #184
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
Stubbs .222/.293/.367
Cozart .240/.287/.369
Bruce .244/.319/.491
Ludwick .238/.310/.498
Rolen .199/.267/.308

How can you win with this? Votto covered up a lot of problems. Now that he's gone surely they take notice. In my 50 years of following the Reds I cannot remember over half the lineup being this pitiful at the plate.
Two of those guys have OPS' over .800.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:55 PM   #185
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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Two of those guys have OPS' over .800.
Probably home run driven.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:56 PM   #186
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
alright here comes the big Reds comeback
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"Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:58 PM   #187
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
Isn't the current SABR wisdom that OBP is about three times as important as SLG in the RC calculation? I certainly would take a .390/.410 guy over the .310/.490 types we've got.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:58 PM   #188
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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Probably home run driven.
Homeruns are worthless?


They have had flaws this season, no question, but look around the league.... Bruce and Ludwick have not been useless offensively this season. If they are in our worst 5 offensive players than we have a great offense.

Unfortunately they are not.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:00 PM   #189
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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Isn't the current SABR wisdom that OBP is about three times as important as SLG in the OPS calculation? I certainly would take a .390/.410 guy over the .310/.490 types we've got.
Those guys hardly exist anymore! I wish we did too, but there are so many pitchers around right now with good command that huge OBP guys are very difficult to find.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:01 PM   #190
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
There went the big Reds comeback. We're bad again. Hopefully they can salvage the series with a win tomorrow.
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"Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:01 PM   #191
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
There are literally 14 guys in MLB with a .390 OBP.

This isn't 2000 anymore.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:03 PM   #192
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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Those guys hardly exist anymore! I wish we did too, but there are so many pitchers around right now with good command that huge OBP guys are very difficult to find.
True.

Bottom line, though, we've got five regulars (Phillips, Cozart, Stubbs, Ludwick, Bruce) who fit the high-SLG, low-OBP profile, plus a guy in Rolen that does neither well at this stage. Long-term, Bruce should be a solid OBP and SLG guy, but I suspect Frazier regresses to the first category.

I just can't see that offense being successful in the long run, as last year showed and this year is confirming. The 2010 offense was very strong but had a full-strength Rolen (who murdered mistakes like very few hitters I've ever seen) and a bit more diversity in attack.

[Edit: Geeh, obviously Frazier and Rolen aren't regulars at the same time when at full strength, but both occupy a ton of PAs.]
Last edited by dsmith421; 07-18-2012 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:05 PM   #193
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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Homeruns are worthless?


They have had flaws this season, no question, but look around the league.... Bruce and Ludwick have not been useless offensively this season. If they are in our worst 5 offensive players than we have a great offense.

Unfortunately they are not.
No, but they don't come often and they inflate slugging percentages. I love Ludwig, and he's hitting better, but the homeruns inflate. Same with Jay. Take away those (I know, that takes away runs) and these guys are having mediocre years. And batting Stubbs and Cozart anywhere the top of the order is almost criminal.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:06 PM   #194
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
I completely agree, these guys have not been special offensive players at all. But in the current day and age it's pretty passable.

The dark holes are the real problem is all I'm saying.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:09 PM   #195
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Re: 7/18/2012 Reds vs Vipers
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I completely agree, these guys have not been special offensive players at all. But in the current day and age it's pretty passable.

The dark holes are the real problem is all I'm saying.
The bigger point, which I think has been proven this year, is that good pitching and defense can keep any team in the mix, regardless of offense. We've had two stinkers the last three days, but that's been the exception this year.
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