Billy Hamilton continuing to excel at AA

[MikeS21]

The real issue for Hamilton is learning the art of distraction.

Joe Morgan was a master at getting into the head of the pitcher and catcher and the defense. It wasn't just about the stolen bases, but about inducing the defense or the pitcher into making mistakes. I wonder how many HR's were given up to George Foster, Johnny Bench, and Tony Perez simply because Joe Morgan on the basepaths distracted the pitcher into giving up a mistake pitch. How many errors did he cause because a defender hurried a throw or took his eyes off the unfielded ball to see where Morgan was?

If Billy Hamilton learns the art of distracting to other team, he is going to be fun to watch.

[bellhead]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

The real issue for Hamilton is learning the art of distraction.

Joe Morgan was a master at getting into the head of the pitcher and catcher and the defense. It wasn't just about the stolen bases, but about inducing the defense or the pitcher into making mistakes. I wonder how many HR's were given up to George Foster, Johnny Bench, and Tony Perez simply because Joe Morgan on the basepaths distracted the pitcher into giving up a mistake pitch. How many errors did he cause because a defender hurried a throw or took his eyes off the unfielded ball to see where Morgan was?

If Billy Hamilton learns the art of distracting to other team, he is going to be fun to watch.

Mike,

I agree 200% and more, it's all about getting into the opposing pitchers head and putting them into a pressure situation.

[Scrap Irony]

If you watched the Futures Game, you saw that Hamilton already has that down.

His key isn't distraction or learning how or when to steal, but, as always, his bat. Can he consistently hit around .300 with an obp over .350 and a slugging over .400? If so, he's a difference-maker in the lineup.

[RedlegJake]

The Reds will need a player batting behind Billy who can handle NOT being distracted himself. Not all hitters like batting behind a base stealer like Hamilton. That was an issue for Rock Raines, Coleman, Wilson and other high volume runners. It really does matter who bats behind them. I remember Morgan saying something about him hitting in front of one of the Reds - they didn't like him stealing because it messed up their concentration. So he rarely tried when he got on in front of that guy. I can't remember though who it was.

[bellhead]

Originally Posted by RedlegJake

The Reds will need a player batting behind Billy who can handle NOT being distracted himself. Not all hitters like batting behind a base stealer like Hamilton. That was an issue for Rock Raines, Coleman, Wilson and other high volume runners. It really does matter who bats behind them. I remember Morgan saying something about him hitting in front of one of the Reds - they didn't like him stealing because it messed up their concentration. So he rarely tried when he got on in front of that guy. I can't remember though who it was.

Votto comes to mind, I don't know whether he might like having guys on base as this far in his career it doesn't happen enough for him to notice

[OUReds]

Originally Posted by RedlegJake

The Reds will need a player batting behind Billy who can handle NOT being distracted himself. Not all hitters like batting behind a base stealer like Hamilton. That was an issue for Rock Raines, Coleman, Wilson and other high volume runners. It really does matter who bats behind them. I remember Morgan saying something about him hitting in front of one of the Reds - they didn't like him stealing because it messed up their concentration. So he rarely tried when he got on in front of that guy. I can't remember though who it was.

It was Griffey Sr., and he's still a little salty about it.

[gilpdawg]

Originally Posted by OUReds

It was Griffey Sr., and he's still a little salty about it.

Yep. It was Morgan who didn't like people stealing when he was batting, and Griffey thought he could have stolen 80 or 90 bags/yr. if he didn't hit in front of Joe.

[RedlegJake]

Originally Posted by gilpdawg

Yep. It was Morgan who didn't like people stealing when he was batting, and Griffey thought he could have stolen 80 or 90 bags/yr. if he didn't hit in front of Joe.

Thanks gilpdawg - I got it backwards but I did remember something about that! And now that you corrected me I do remember it being Senior! Thanks!

[kaldaniels]

The much revered (by myself as well) Dave Cameron said in his chat today the Reds would be crazy not to call up Billy late in the season.

[RedlegJake]

Cameron is a good writer and analyst but why would he think rushing Hamilton up is a good idea? I mean did he back up his thinking with any numbers or analysis or talking points why he thought it would be a good idea? I like him too but he's in the minority on this one where baseball insiders - ie coaches, former players etc are concerned. Mostly its fans who call for Billy to be with the Reds in September and the professionals who say wait. At least the ones I've read.

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by RedlegJake

Cameron is a good writer and analyst but why would he think rushing Hamilton up is a good idea? I mean did he back up his thinking with any numbers or analysis or talking points why he thought it would be a good idea? I like him too but he's in the minority on this one where baseball insiders - ie coaches, former players etc are concerned. Mostly its fans who call for Billy to be with the Reds in September and the professionals who say wait. At least the ones I've read.

While I don't see Billy having a big effect on the Reds if he was called up...what are the negatives of doing so?

1) Spot on the 40 man - big deal...a lot of chaff on there right now

2) Screw up his development - I highly doubt that

3) A month of service time - that's alittle hairy

Am I missing anything else?

[kaldaniels]

Nm

[RedlegJake]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

1) Spot on the 40 man - big deal...a lot of chaff on there right now

True enough. But to use him in the post season you have to get him on the 25 man before the 31st of August unless I am missing something in the rules? That means someone has to go down. Am I right about that? (I may well be wrong - I'm not sure) I would imagine you'd want him as a pinch runner at least in the post season. I sure would.

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

2) Screw up his development - I highly doubt that

I'd leave this to the people who know him. Is he fragile confidence wise? I doubt that too because he adjusts so quickly when he starts out with pretty bad numbers. I mean if that first year didn't shake his confidence... Still - I'd leave the answer to Griffey Sr. and Riggleman the guys who've worked with him daily. If he flops badly will it shake him up? My bet is he could handle it.

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

3) A month of service time - that's a little hairy

This is the real catch if you ask me. Do they want to start his "clock". I don't think its that big a deal and not much sooner than he'll play his way into it anyway.

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Am I missing anything else?

How much use would he really get as a pinch runner? How many times would Dusty want to pull a player from the game to use a pinch runner? Certainly there would be occasions but not as often as one might think. Maybe if Hanigan/Me get on late in the game. Or Cairo/Rolen. Or if a pinch hitter got on?
I'd rather get him in the game as a player and I don't know if he'd be ready for that - he hasn't played outfield yet ad his defense by all accounts isn't ready for major league shortstop yet.
Or forget the post season and just bring him up with the expanded rosters and strictly use him as a pinch runner for the regular season just to help clinch the division.

I wish he had already played centerfield, then I'd say let him actually play a few games in center and leadoff.

[757690]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

While I don't see Billy having a big effect on the Reds if he was called up...what are the negatives of doing so?

1) Spot on the 40 man - big deal...a lot of chaff on there right now

2) Screw up his development - I highly doubt that

3) A month of service time - that's alittle hairy

Am I missing anything else?

I'd say #2 is the primary concern and for good reason. The major leagues are completely different from the minors and not just in terms of talent. It's a completely different experience, bright lights, big cities, tens of thousands of fans, dozens of reporters, millons of TV viewers, and it's all for real. The pressure can be overwhelming.

That shouldn't be taken lightly. I have no idea if Hamilton can handle being in the majors or what effect it would have on him, but it's not something that should be taken lightly.

[bellhead]

If he came up would he be a super 2, even if he spent the majority of next year in AA/AAA...

Also would we loose a year of control for him?