Former Notre Dame star says OSU used "criminals" to win

[Chip R]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncf/story...d-citizens-win

[Boston Red]

Doesn't everyone?

[Puffy]

Allen Pinkett needs to keep his mouth shut.

[Chip R]

I've heard some discussion on this topic and I wonder what Pinkett really meant by using the word, "criminals" or "bad guys." On Mike and Mike this morning they seemed to believe that meant lowering admissions standards and, as a fan, would you accept your alma mater (or the school you root for) lowering those standards for having a very successful program and whether you actually need to.

I also wonder if Pinkett meant that he felt there should be more players that have more of a violent streak in them rather than players who actually commit criminal acts. I would hope no one would want players who commit violent criminal acts on their team. You can have players that have violent streaks that aren't criminals. Or I wonder if he meant, when he made mention of OSU, players who break NCAA rules. It depends on the rule, of course, but breaking an NCAA rule doesn't necessarily make one a criminal. In the eyes of some it may make a player a "bad guy" if he violates NCAA rules but they may not actually be "bad guys" in the strictest sense of the phrase since there are a lot of NCAA rules that are just stupid.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Chip R

I've heard some discussion on this topic and I wonder what Pinkett really meant by using the word, "criminals" or "bad guys." On Mike and Mike this morning they seemed to believe that meant lowering admissions standards and, as a fan, would you accept your alma mater (or the school you root for) lowering those standards for having a very successful program and whether you actually need to.

I heard that on Mike and Mike and I have no problems with a school lowering its standards under certain circumstances. I just require that the kid have a high school diploma and maintain the same academic standards that is required of every other student in order to stay enrolled.

[Boston Red]

Every school lowers their admissions standards. I would bet there aren't a half dozen kids on Notre Dame's roster that would have been admitted without their football prowess.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

Every school lowers their admissions standards. I would bet there aren't a half dozen kids on Notre Dame's roster that would have been admitted without their football prowess.

In fairness, Notre Dame only allows a couple of admissions exceptions a year to their athletes. They probably walk the walk better than any program in America as far as holding their athletes to mostly the same academic standards as the general body. It was their refusal to cave to a few more exceptions that caused Urban Meyer to not accept the job several years ago, and it's probably why they continue to suck as a program.

[texasdave]

Former Notre Dame running back and Fighting Irish radio analyst Allen Pinkett has been pulled off the broadcast of Saturday's season opener against Navy in Dublin, Ireland, following his comments that teams need bad guys to give them an edge.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz253ozgTLp

[Boston Red]

Originally Posted by Brutus

In fairness, Notre Dame only allows a couple of admissions exceptions a year to their athletes.

I'm certain that's not true. Do you know how difficult it is to get into Notre Dame? They may have some very low bar that is their absolute minimum standard that they would even consider that about 0.1% of ordinary applicants would be admitted if they applied with. And their football team may, in fact, by and large exceed that hurdle. But you're never going to convince me that Notre Dame has a bunch of football players with 3.9 high school GPAs and 1300s on their SATs (or whatever the equivalent of that is now that they've changed the scale). That's basically what it takes for the average student to get in.

Here are ND's freshman class stats (http://admissions.nd.edu/admission-a...ns-statistics/). 89% were in the top 10% of their high school classes. 52% were in the top 2% of their high school classes. Do you really think half of ND's football team was in the top 2% of their high school classes? That almost all of them were in the top 10% of their high school classes?

[camisadelgolf]

Criminals are used for pretty much anything. They watch your kids, take out your garbage, sell you frozen yogurt, govern communities, entertain you, etc. So what's this guy's point? This guy's point is, "I need ratings. What's something controversial I can do?" Unfortunately for him, he took it too far.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Boston Red

I'm certain that's not true. Do you know how difficult it is to get into Notre Dame? They may have some very low bar that is their absolute minimum standard that they would even consider that about 0.1% of ordinary applicants would be admitted if they applied with. And their football team may, in fact, by and large exceed that hurdle. But you're never going to convince me that Notre Dame has a bunch of football players with 3.9 high school GPAs and 1300s on their SATs (or whatever the equivalent of that is now that they've changed the scale). That's basically what it takes for the average student to get in.

Here are ND's freshman class stats (http://admissions.nd.edu/admission-a...ns-statistics/). 89% were in the top 10% of their high school classes. 52% were in the top 2% of their high school classes. Do you really think half of ND's football team was in the top 2% of their high school classes? That almost all of them were in the top 10% of their high school classes?

No, I think they are part of the 11% that aren't in the top 10% of their classes, the 48% that were not in the top 2% of their classes, etc.

That is, after all, part of the general body yes? I didn't say they were above average within the body, just that most fell within the normal admissions range.

The 25 percentile of ACT scores two years ago for Notre Dame was 31. Do I think most athletes being accepted have a 31? No. But that does mean 25 of every 100 students admitted into Notre Dame have a score less than 31. I would surmise most athletes are in this range.

I never said they were accepting only students that were in the upper echelon, just meant that they were mostly accepting athletes that were at the lowest end of their standards.

Last I saw, the average SAT reading/math composite was around 1100 for Notre Dame football players. The 25 percentile score was around 1200. My point here is that while most athletes are well below the general population average, most are within the lowest range of admissions. Notre Dame is far, far more consistent with admissions criteria than most. That I am absolutely sure of.

[Boston Red]

Basically, I think we agree. ND allows in a bunch of football players who would otherwise have no chance to get into the school. But they do have standards above NCAA minimums.