8/31/12 - Reds at Astros

[Reds Fanatic]

Line out to short. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

wild pitch moves the runner to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dominguez grounds out to short. 9-3 Reds after8.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Straw man. Nobody is saying anyone should be "patient for patience sake" or should let good, hittable pitches go by.

Patience means waiting for a pitch you can handle. If the first pitch is in the zone and something you can handle you swing at it. Of course.

But a hitter like Heisey swings at almost everything early in the count. He's overly aggressive. He may be "comfortable" doing so but it doesn't yield good results.

He would be far better off being patient. And if waiting for a good pitch isn't fundamental, I don't know what is.

What evidence do you have that Heisey isn't patient, as in he doesn't wait for good pitches? To me, all the criticism of him is just that he swings early in the count. I don't see any evidence that he routinely is swinging at bad pitches.

He would only be better off being patient if it guarantees him of seeing better pitches by waiting. If you're not going to see a better pitch deeper in the count, it doesn't benefit you much to wait unless the pitcher you're facing has poor control.

Sorry but this fundamental argument is the strawman. It's not a fundamental. It's a style. Not everyone is better off waiting on pitches. Not everyone can be like Albert Pujols or Joey Votto. Some guys are more comfortable swinging the bat when they see a good pitch early in the count. That's smart hitting. The trick is to know when to say when, not waiting for the sake of waiting.

By your logic, baseball players largely had bad fundamentals for the first century of baseball, as pitch counts per plate appearance only came up in the last 10 years or so. It used to be that you had a piece of timber in your hands because you went to the plate looking for the best pitches to use it with. You didn't go to the plate looking to add pitches to a pitch tally or hope to draw a walk instead of hitting.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs flies out to center.

[Gallen5862]

Thanks for the pbp.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by oneupper

Not that I don't agree Heisey could be more patient, but he is sporting a .750 OPS and that's about his career average. He can run, bunt, play the field (even if he jumps at balls that aren't there sometimes).
I'd say he has yielded good (but not great) results.

I never said Heisey was bad. He has good power, he hustles, he makes more contact that his counterpart in CF. Chris is terrific in LF defensively, seems generally adequate in CF.

But Chris has walked 12 times all year. 284 official at bats.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce grounds out into the shift. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pirates have scored in the 7th. Now 5-2 Brewers top 7th.

[Gizmo]

Pirates add one in the 7th, so now it's 5-2 Brewers at the stretch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Frazier grounds out. 9-3 Reds mid 9th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lopez grounds out to 1st.

[WVRedsFan]

Simon trying to make it interesting but one out.

[WVRedsFan]

Tell me about this Rodriguez kid.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bogusevic grounds out to 2nd.